FedEx-Pilot Values
01-03-2009, 06:48 AM
#1
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: WB-FO
Posts: 50
FedEx-Pilot Values
Hello all,
Before I get into my opinion here, let me say that I am not in the bottom 700, but am in the bottom 1000.
I believe that we are at a crossroad here for our profession, our union, and our individual character. The catalyst for that is the decision that we are all individually contemplating, the choice between furloughing pilots and pay cuts. Please let me offer my perspective.
A union is supposed to combine representation of a group of people for their common benefit. ALPA is our union, it must be because I see it everwhere on peoples ID lanyards. But what I hear from so many pilots in our operations, on the busses, and around town is that many are not willing to stand together in unity to prevent a furlough if it means a certain % pay cut. Thankfully our union, through their recent statements, does not feel that way, I hope that I am correct on that. If we are not willing to stand for our fellow ALPA brothers and sisters, then we stand with management, ourselves, or both.
We are much stronger if we stand together, we can accomplish so much more if we fight for each other. I learned in the Marine Corps that we do not leave a fellow Marine behind, that is a vital and foundational component of what makes Marines a feared opponent to our enemies, and a strong brotherhood within. When a Marine platoon becomes engaged with the enemy, and they are in trouble, you can damn well bet you will see more Marines coming to their rescue than you would see at a Hooters convention, even with free beer! These are the kind of people that you have to respect, respect for their selfless dedication to a common goal, no matter what the cost. We need that common goal now! We need that dedication to each other now!
The Bible asks us "What does it profit a man to gain the world, but lose his soul"?. If we allow our own selfishness to divide us in this battle, how can we wear that lanyard around our neck with honor? What example do we demonstrate to our fellow pilots, our wives, our friends and our children? How can we ride with each other in the cockpit in the coming years, and decades even, and know that there is always a dollar value threshhold on our values and commitment? How can we rationalize having so much in our own lives, while we are choosing to send so many pilot families down the torturous road of furlough and pain? I know, I myself have been down that road and it often leads to broken families and divorce, loss of all assets, etc.
I know that a pay cut, although temporary, would impact everyone, everyones chosen lifestyle and everyones plans. Lets minimize our maximum regret here, and I believe it would be our maximum long term regret if we "sold our souls" by allowing our fellow pilots to be furloughed without doing everthing that we possibly can to prevent it. We now even have the legal right to work 5 years longer and make that much more money (you do the math), so how can we say that we cannot afford to stand by our bottom 700, or whatever the number is.
The company is our lifeblood, our success is irrevocably intertwined. There have been financial cuts amongst salaried employees, why should we bear more of the burden than them? Management also would love to see our union divided, and this would divide us for many years. How much pay and quality of life benefits would we lose over our career of contract negotiations if we are divided if we never stand together. Your guess is as good as mine!
I say stand together as a union. If we dont do it now, when would we ever do it? Semper Fidelis means "always faithful", not faithful when its convenient for me. The right time to do the right thing is all the time.
MoonF18
Before I get into my opinion here, let me say that I am not in the bottom 700, but am in the bottom 1000.
I believe that we are at a crossroad here for our profession, our union, and our individual character. The catalyst for that is the decision that we are all individually contemplating, the choice between furloughing pilots and pay cuts. Please let me offer my perspective.
A union is supposed to combine representation of a group of people for their common benefit. ALPA is our union, it must be because I see it everwhere on peoples ID lanyards. But what I hear from so many pilots in our operations, on the busses, and around town is that many are not willing to stand together in unity to prevent a furlough if it means a certain % pay cut. Thankfully our union, through their recent statements, does not feel that way, I hope that I am correct on that. If we are not willing to stand for our fellow ALPA brothers and sisters, then we stand with management, ourselves, or both.
We are much stronger if we stand together, we can accomplish so much more if we fight for each other. I learned in the Marine Corps that we do not leave a fellow Marine behind, that is a vital and foundational component of what makes Marines a feared opponent to our enemies, and a strong brotherhood within. When a Marine platoon becomes engaged with the enemy, and they are in trouble, you can damn well bet you will see more Marines coming to their rescue than you would see at a Hooters convention, even with free beer! These are the kind of people that you have to respect, respect for their selfless dedication to a common goal, no matter what the cost. We need that common goal now! We need that dedication to each other now!
The Bible asks us "What does it profit a man to gain the world, but lose his soul"?. If we allow our own selfishness to divide us in this battle, how can we wear that lanyard around our neck with honor? What example do we demonstrate to our fellow pilots, our wives, our friends and our children? How can we ride with each other in the cockpit in the coming years, and decades even, and know that there is always a dollar value threshhold on our values and commitment? How can we rationalize having so much in our own lives, while we are choosing to send so many pilot families down the torturous road of furlough and pain? I know, I myself have been down that road and it often leads to broken families and divorce, loss of all assets, etc.
I know that a pay cut, although temporary, would impact everyone, everyones chosen lifestyle and everyones plans. Lets minimize our maximum regret here, and I believe it would be our maximum long term regret if we "sold our souls" by allowing our fellow pilots to be furloughed without doing everthing that we possibly can to prevent it. We now even have the legal right to work 5 years longer and make that much more money (you do the math), so how can we say that we cannot afford to stand by our bottom 700, or whatever the number is.
The company is our lifeblood, our success is irrevocably intertwined. There have been financial cuts amongst salaried employees, why should we bear more of the burden than them? Management also would love to see our union divided, and this would divide us for many years. How much pay and quality of life benefits would we lose over our career of contract negotiations if we are divided if we never stand together. Your guess is as good as mine!
I say stand together as a union. If we dont do it now, when would we ever do it? Semper Fidelis means "always faithful", not faithful when its convenient for me. The right time to do the right thing is all the time.
MoonF18
01-03-2009, 09:55 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 357
By the end of Jan or Feb we should know the answer but, the word is the company plans to have different BLGs for different aircraft, by a greater number than the contract allows. The company position is, this is allowed and the Union position is, it is a violation of the contract. The company says they have to do this to prevent a furlough, the Union believes there is no need for a furlough.
I fear the only way for the company to prove to a judge they needed a furlough is to actually do it.
Now the question is, how will they do it. They have to do a realignment before a furlough, otherwise the 27 will be grounded, the only guys they have to fill the 27 SO are the ANC FOs. Thus, the same problem as the last excess bid. The answer; they could furlough all they way through the ANC FOs and fill the 27 SO seats with Memphis FOs, thus eliminating the move cost. The flying out of ANC would be done out of Memphis when the reductions in ANC take place. Once again eliminating the move packages. As for how would they fly the HKG schedule; that's been answered - SIBA.
Now the real test; according to DM at the ANC meeting if they furlough, all BLGs go to 48 and stay there until all have been brought back on property. This is the Union position, the company position is different. Thus the test, the company is leaning towards not following the contract, so the only way left to enforce the contract is for the crewmembers to enforce it. Now we will see if we have a union or not. Based on my experience with disputed parings I wonder.
BTW in the interest of full disclosure I'm one of the ANC Nuggets so, yes I will be the furloughed guy. I fully expect it to happen, the only question I have is, will the excess occur in a way to allow me a chance to move out of this awfully expensive place (ANC) before I lose my income.
I fear the only way for the company to prove to a judge they needed a furlough is to actually do it.
Now the question is, how will they do it. They have to do a realignment before a furlough, otherwise the 27 will be grounded, the only guys they have to fill the 27 SO are the ANC FOs. Thus, the same problem as the last excess bid. The answer; they could furlough all they way through the ANC FOs and fill the 27 SO seats with Memphis FOs, thus eliminating the move cost. The flying out of ANC would be done out of Memphis when the reductions in ANC take place. Once again eliminating the move packages. As for how would they fly the HKG schedule; that's been answered - SIBA.
Now the real test; according to DM at the ANC meeting if they furlough, all BLGs go to 48 and stay there until all have been brought back on property. This is the Union position, the company position is different. Thus the test, the company is leaning towards not following the contract, so the only way left to enforce the contract is for the crewmembers to enforce it. Now we will see if we have a union or not. Based on my experience with disputed parings I wonder.
BTW in the interest of full disclosure I'm one of the ANC Nuggets so, yes I will be the furloughed guy. I fully expect it to happen, the only question I have is, will the excess occur in a way to allow me a chance to move out of this awfully expensive place (ANC) before I lose my income.
Last edited by MD10PLT; 01-03-2009 at 10:36 AM.
01-03-2009, 10:07 AM
#5
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 84
MBPG vs BLG.
Looking at the language of 4.A.2b, it doesn't look good.... Definitely not the intent of that section (Shared sacrifice), but the language is bogus. No snap back provisions either. I'm actually surprised the company didn't use this earlier. Evil Bastages....
Anyone think the cost savings (No buyup/less BLG/possibly less pilots) associated with this move will help offset/equal some of the training costs for a realignment bid?? Robbing Peter to screw Peter. Food for thought...
Looking at the language of 4.A.2b, it doesn't look good.... Definitely not the intent of that section (Shared sacrifice), but the language is bogus. No snap back provisions either. I'm actually surprised the company didn't use this earlier. Evil Bastages....
Anyone think the cost savings (No buyup/less BLG/possibly less pilots) associated with this move will help offset/equal some of the training costs for a realignment bid?? Robbing Peter to screw Peter. Food for thought...
01-03-2009, 11:47 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 609
Originally Posted by iarapilot
All that sounds good, if the assumption that the Company needs to furlough is correct. Personally, I dont think so. They are make $$, not losing them!!!!!!!
Last edited by BOYCAPTAIN; 01-03-2009 at 12:28 PM.
01-03-2009, 12:00 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Continuing The Dream
Posts: 161
I guess I'm missing something here - except for the Company trying to run rough-shod over the crew force. And actually, that shouldn't be a surprise to anybody.
Take a look at where our trip construction has gone since . . . the mail contract, or this CBA. We've got the grid that NOBODY understands, TZDs, and the philosophy that if we don't like it - grieve it! We're continuously asked to step up, do what's right, shorten our layovers, waive contractual work limits and extend to FAR limits. We are the ones that make it happen when there's a snow event. NOBODY says - 'Boss, I'm tired, let's go in'! We absolutely, positively, make this show work.
So, when the planners continue to tweak the optimizer, and we dispute the trips for being onerous, and are over-ruled by our VP Flight Ops, we just continue to work it. The pairings are absolutely so efficient when they come out for review that there is NO slack. If one crew is delayed, one jet breaks, one typhoon circumnavigation occurs, that crew won't be legal to operate their next segment. ONE modification affects as man as seven crews in the Pacific. Be thankful for the CBA, because these modifications cost MILLIONS!!! In ANC alone, trip modification costs are approximately $2 Million per year.
Right now, the Company has a CBA they can't make work. [They're] scrambling looking for a fix - which OBTW - is pretty visible and easy. Unfortunately angered managers and executives tend to look through straws and can't keep their eye on the ball. There are a few issues [they] specifically opposed being in the CBA. In ANC, we have Purple Nuggets - which up to now have saved 700 jobs. Those crews would NEVER have been hired directly into the ANC domicile had there been a move package, no harm - no foul, the Company's decision that jumpseat time is considered duty - costing ANC domiciled crew members an extra day away from home. Are you seeing some of the picture? The Company has built a problem, now they're looking for a solution. Right now the Company is trying to go 'all in', and we're holding a pretty good hand. Cutting crews in ANC will exacerbate the problems. Double deadheads to HKG right now run $10K to $20K. Double deadheads to ANC will run about $5K. Loss of efficiency positioning the crews, reduced BLG will limit duty period availability.
Next, look at the HKG domicile - and the 'perceived' threat that if we didn't sign, they'd hire foreign pilots. YIKES - that's scary. So, lets take a step back. How many Chinese crew members have graduated from an accredited university with a 4 year diploma? How many foreign crew members will qualify for a clearance, speak fluent English, and be able to successfully train in our MD-11 training department? I believe to operate under our OPSPECS, they'll all be required to have an FAA ATP, and FE Written. And, what happens to our CRAF, MAC, and USPS agreements with foreign crew members? And had we not given up the 2 hour G/T limit with the LOA, the Company would not have been able to get crews from HKG to CAN. Establishing the domicile in Guangzhou would have been even worse than it is now. To add to [their] problem, we've added an additional $10K, and the Company still can't man HKG. Had [we] just stepped back and let the Company establish the HKG and CDG domiciles with our CBA Chapter 6, I think you'd see quite a different picture now.
The B-777 is really a non-issue. Fly it for wide-body pay - or don't bid it! I think for the past 14 years or so I've been here, I've always been told, bid what I want to fly. There's always a caveat - so read the small print. And, what you see isn't going to be what you get.
Finally - age 60/65. I've never heard whether a down-bid to the panel in lieu of retirement brought a two year freeze. Should it? I have no clue, except now it's water under the bridge. I can't fix it, and neither can you. The law is the law and I let my Congressman know my position. For what it's worth though, work on the retirement age started in about 1993.
So - right now - we've got a management that's had 5 failed bids, a failed excess bid, a failed domicile manning, a poor prediction on crew manning requirements. I don't expect [them] to make any good decisions, based on their history. We're in for an exciting ride for the next few weeks, but right now I think the answer from the crew force when needed to step up should be well thought out. We need MANAGEMENT to step up. We deserve more! We deserve better!
Take a look at where our trip construction has gone since . . . the mail contract, or this CBA. We've got the grid that NOBODY understands, TZDs, and the philosophy that if we don't like it - grieve it! We're continuously asked to step up, do what's right, shorten our layovers, waive contractual work limits and extend to FAR limits. We are the ones that make it happen when there's a snow event. NOBODY says - 'Boss, I'm tired, let's go in'! We absolutely, positively, make this show work.
So, when the planners continue to tweak the optimizer, and we dispute the trips for being onerous, and are over-ruled by our VP Flight Ops, we just continue to work it. The pairings are absolutely so efficient when they come out for review that there is NO slack. If one crew is delayed, one jet breaks, one typhoon circumnavigation occurs, that crew won't be legal to operate their next segment. ONE modification affects as man as seven crews in the Pacific. Be thankful for the CBA, because these modifications cost MILLIONS!!! In ANC alone, trip modification costs are approximately $2 Million per year.
Right now, the Company has a CBA they can't make work. [They're] scrambling looking for a fix - which OBTW - is pretty visible and easy. Unfortunately angered managers and executives tend to look through straws and can't keep their eye on the ball. There are a few issues [they] specifically opposed being in the CBA. In ANC, we have Purple Nuggets - which up to now have saved 700 jobs. Those crews would NEVER have been hired directly into the ANC domicile had there been a move package, no harm - no foul, the Company's decision that jumpseat time is considered duty - costing ANC domiciled crew members an extra day away from home. Are you seeing some of the picture? The Company has built a problem, now they're looking for a solution. Right now the Company is trying to go 'all in', and we're holding a pretty good hand. Cutting crews in ANC will exacerbate the problems. Double deadheads to HKG right now run $10K to $20K. Double deadheads to ANC will run about $5K. Loss of efficiency positioning the crews, reduced BLG will limit duty period availability.
Next, look at the HKG domicile - and the 'perceived' threat that if we didn't sign, they'd hire foreign pilots. YIKES - that's scary. So, lets take a step back. How many Chinese crew members have graduated from an accredited university with a 4 year diploma? How many foreign crew members will qualify for a clearance, speak fluent English, and be able to successfully train in our MD-11 training department? I believe to operate under our OPSPECS, they'll all be required to have an FAA ATP, and FE Written. And, what happens to our CRAF, MAC, and USPS agreements with foreign crew members? And had we not given up the 2 hour G/T limit with the LOA, the Company would not have been able to get crews from HKG to CAN. Establishing the domicile in Guangzhou would have been even worse than it is now. To add to [their] problem, we've added an additional $10K, and the Company still can't man HKG. Had [we] just stepped back and let the Company establish the HKG and CDG domiciles with our CBA Chapter 6, I think you'd see quite a different picture now.
The B-777 is really a non-issue. Fly it for wide-body pay - or don't bid it! I think for the past 14 years or so I've been here, I've always been told, bid what I want to fly. There's always a caveat - so read the small print. And, what you see isn't going to be what you get.
Finally - age 60/65. I've never heard whether a down-bid to the panel in lieu of retirement brought a two year freeze. Should it? I have no clue, except now it's water under the bridge. I can't fix it, and neither can you. The law is the law and I let my Congressman know my position. For what it's worth though, work on the retirement age started in about 1993.
So - right now - we've got a management that's had 5 failed bids, a failed excess bid, a failed domicile manning, a poor prediction on crew manning requirements. I don't expect [them] to make any good decisions, based on their history. We're in for an exciting ride for the next few weeks, but right now I think the answer from the crew force when needed to step up should be well thought out. We need MANAGEMENT to step up. We deserve more! We deserve better!
01-03-2009, 12:02 PM
#8
Bourgeoisie
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 787 SO
Posts: 616
Unity is great, but it doesn't pay my rent. This place needs to learn a hard lesson the next time the "beancounters" tell management to hire a single pilot. A lean, agile organization is what's needed in these uncertain times, not a bloated seniority list from top to bottom. Less pilots from the start would be better, but we are where we are. Too bad there is not enough incentive for guys to retire.
I'm not too worried about a furlough. If the BLG's actually reach 48 I will have to quit to have the time at home to work multiple jobs. Guess my small apartment and used car are luxuries I don't deserve anymore.
Fuel sense? I don't think so. Let them eat cake.
I'm not too worried about a furlough. If the BLG's actually reach 48 I will have to quit to have the time at home to work multiple jobs. Guess my small apartment and used car are luxuries I don't deserve anymore.
Fuel sense? I don't think so. Let them eat cake.
01-03-2009, 12:07 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 148
11-08-08:
1-3-09:
That's a pretty big 180 for someone with your level of access to advance inside information.
If I didn't have your act figured out before, I do now. At what point does John Wayne reach across and smack you one?
Originally Posted by BOYCAPTAIN
alright everyone....enough with the furlough talk....when u hear it from me then worry about it....until then leave it alone...NO FURLOUGHS!!!
1-3-09:
Originally Posted by BOYCAPTAIN
time to wake up!...we are losing tons of flying...reserve utilization is around 10%...airplanes are being parked all over the place...china is closing factories every day....we are consolidating freight..where there used to be 4 trips to LA we now have 2....(feb 10 2008 mem-lax flt 381,518,553,775...jan 3 2009 flt 381 and 553)....we are making money due to cuts all over FDX corp...i guess u would rather start losing money first..then make cuts...guess what?.. when we start losing money the company will come after the contract as well as furlough....time to get out of denial..geesh!....someone let me know when our union verifies the overmanning numbers!
That's a pretty big 180 for someone with your level of access to advance inside information.
If I didn't have your act figured out before, I do now. At what point does John Wayne reach across and smack you one?
01-03-2009, 12:10 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 609
1st one was sarcasm....get it?...........seriously i think the union and company are in unchartered waters and don't have a clue what to do!....and the junior guys will suffer!.....i now will enjoy my 3 weeks off with my family...and fans...u don't have anything figured out...but u will need to figure out the 72 panel again!
......seriously i think the union and company are in unchartered waters and don't have a clue what to do!....and the junior guys will suffer!.....i now will enjoy my 3 weeks off with my family...and fans...u don't have anything figured out...but u will need to figure out the 72 panel again!
Last edited by BOYCAPTAIN; 01-03-2009 at 12:24 PM.
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