av8rmike

Here's 4.A.2.b. in all it's glory:

"The minimum bid period guarantee shall be reduced to a minimum of 48/60 CH before any pilot is furloughed. At least a full bid period must follow the announcement of this action. This provision shall only be used to prevent or delay a furlough."

I read they have to announce a full bid period in advance. They did that. I also read this section is to be used to prevent or delay the f-word. If they meant 'upon written notification', it would have been in there.

I like your thinking, but what do we have to hold their feet? Not the language here as I read it.

a300fr8dog

Might not be the words, but it's the "intent". Recent comm. from ALPA talks all about what the negotiators' "intent" was. This whole situation is nothing less than the same blinking contest that goes on during the end of contract negotiations. It's all about brinksmanship. I say we give our guys the benefit of the doubt, because it sure sounds like they understand what's on the table.

FoxHunter

The 48/60 reduction originated in the first FPA T/A, contract. PC represented FPA on the union side of the table so he may have an expert opinion of the intent.

Sluggo_63

I have a trucking company, too. I only have 99 drivers (to make my public math easy) and they are split evenly with 33 drivers in Los Angeles, 33 in New York, and 33 in Baton Rouge. Now I need to lay off 33 drivers, because volume is down, so I decide I'm going to close Baton Rouge, because I still need drivers in LA and NY. The problem is, all the senior drivers are in Baton Rouge. So I have to lay off 33 drivers between NY and LA, and then move all the senior Baton Rouge drivers to the coast. So now their contract states that if I kick them out of their home, I have to pay for the move, buy their house, and give them all sorts of living expenses. Added to this, I used the Peterbilt 397 in Baton Rouge, but I use a Mack Pinnacle in LA and a Volvo VN in NY. So now all those Baton Rouge drivers that moved to the coasts have to be trained in new trucks... man, I didn't know laying off 33 drivers would cost me so much... in fact, after I ran the numbers, it's actually costing me MORE money to lay off 33 drivers than it would if I just kept them all... I have a great idea... I'll just scare them into thinking that they're going to be laid off, and they'll take the pay cut willingly. Brilliant!!

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

I heard The One's administration will propose tax cuts for business that create jobs OR prevent layoffs... If so, I wonder if some businesses won't try to announce huge layoffs only to "miraculously" cancel them later to make themselves eligible for the tax rebate?

FreightDawgyDog

Shouldn't you be off counting your money instead of taunting those who are about to take a hit so guys like you can keep making more of it? How much C/O are you flying FH? No one knows because you hide your schedule. Thanks again for your part in this. I only hope karma catches up with you like it did your pal NMB. I guess that train wreck he saw coming wasn't ALPA related after all and he ended up being the engineer! BTW..it's amazing how much safer the deer are now that your back in the left seat!

FreightDawgyDog

You forgot to add that it was your decision to put them out of order in the first place and to put them back in order would cost more than would be saved by a furlough. Other than that..spot on!

Again, we have been offering to help with this issue for a year and been turned down. Poor decisions made by management as far as where to put pilots, allowing those that were in lower paying seats to jump up to higher paying ones when we are already in a surplus situation, and opening bases where the junior pilots in the company would be based overseas due to a expat package that was woefully insufficient are the main culprits here. Do we really need to take a pay cut for that from a company that made these mistakes and told us to pack sand when we tried to help? Saving 24 million a year on fuel cost and this is their thanks? How many managers got bonuses for our actions in the Fuel Sense program? Lots.. The pilots doing all the work in the heat and cold while they sat in their climate controlled offices? No bonuses I am aware of like they give in the rest of the company when times are good. Now that they are bad we take the biggest hit? Oh and did I mention we are STILL MAKING MONEY! Name one other pilot group that has done any of this while their company was still prosperous. Let's all get a grip and stop finding ways to justify this on the company's part. If they really needed help they would have responded to our offers. This is all about a power grab while the getting is good and hoping we all react like the original poster here.

The economy is bad. It may get worse. This company will suffer just like others. It will get better. We will make it through this better than most. Furlough is really not an option now for several reasons we are not responsible for. This is not what this is about.

BTW..2010 just got a whole lot harder in my mind. With all the "gray" areas of the contract we have been exposed on these last few years I will not vote for a contract that doesn't have real teeth. Close the loopholes that we trusted the company to follow the intent of and make it iron-damn-clad! Oh, and if we are going to take a hit when we don't make as much money as management wanted, build me in a share the wealth program when they make record profits like they have the previous 10 years.

Thanks you for your time..

JetJocF14

Yor first problem was to own a trucking company in Baton Rouge. Other than that your anaylsis of the problem was spot on. We used to have several bids a year. Then it moved to spring and fall bids. Then just a spring bid untill now were we would not make a move until we had the MOABs. This is how mangt got the senority all out of wack...........

Gunter

This is the heart of the matter

pinseeker

Mike,

Have you read the whole contract? How about the section that states the max diff in blg is 13 in a bid period package. The only place bid period package is defined states that one will be built for each base. It says nothing about aircraft. So, a DC10 at 48 in MEM and an MD11 at 70 in MEM would be a violation.

How about section 23 which states "The Company shall notify the Association in writing if it anticipates
a furlough or a recall. Upon written request, the Company shall
meet and consult with the Association concerning possible
adjustments to provisions of this Agreement (e.g., construction of
bid period schedules and reducing or eliminating volunteer and
draft flying) that may avoid or mitigate the effects of a furlough."

Or how about further down where it states that the company can offer early retirement to prevent or delay a furlough.

Section four is only part of the whole contract and is only one of the things available to prevent or delay a furlough. The company is making a money grab. They said in the fall that they would continue talk in the new year when the manning picture became clearer, but right after peak, we ran into an emergency that couldn't wait. Does that seem logical to you?