Does anyone know if IFL out of KPTK still has a 1 hour call out requirement? I live 45 mins from PTK, but if I hit traffic, it's more like an hour drive. I'd be interested in a SIC position with them

Ah you said $10.8k quarterly not annually. Glad I asked.

Any B727 positions?

My previous PC was 11/2022.

Also, the CRJ is DEC?

Thanks!

Sorry about the confusion. Maybe if I had written "paid out quarterly," it would have been clearer. That being said, I would not have hire anyone without making sure they have a clear understanding of what the pay is, even if you hadn't asked.

To my knowledge nothing on the 727 right now, and I think they don't anticipate hiring for it until January. Yes there is a DEC spot at our TVF base available.

IFL current hiring mins/other info
 

The information on the APC profile page for IFL Group appears to be a bit dated. Is there any chance someone can provide current information on hiring mins, home-basing, or an outlook on FO hiring going into 2024 on any of the airframes? The IFL careers web page does not provide any type of hiring mins for pilot positions. I have sent in a request to the company directly and am waiting to hear back. Thanks in advance!

Any updated info?
 

Hello, any updates on hiring for IFL. I live in Michigan and a guy I work with at the FBO talked about working as an FE on the 727's way back in the day. Is IFL still doing any hiring for the FE positions, I've done the apply online from their website, and will probably call soon to check in as well. I'm currently only Comm ASEL at around 270TT but still flying to build time, and working on Multi and will probably end up doing CFI. From what I've seen, its a lot of rough work, but I'd be willing for the opportunity to get a foot in the door flying cargo.

Transauto 727's toast?
 

FlightRadar24 shows 281FL parked in Hamilton since September, 216WE at YHM two weeks ago and 215WE flying roughly every other day.

I heard K5 was getting rid of their 727's this year but the pair at UJ are still flying, any intel?

Any news on if IFL will be looking for flight engineers on the 727 in the near future? It sounds like a few of you on this thread work(ed) for IFL, but those posts are a bit old at this point.

I'm currently trying to chart my path from newly-minuted commercial pilot to being paid to fly. When I talked to the person from IFL at Oshkosh this last year, being a flight engineer on the 727 sounded like a really compelling alternative to going the CFI route. I've looked at where/when the 727 flies, so I'm pursuing this eyes-wide-open that the schedule will be lots of nights, but I'm up for it.

I have the chief pilot's email and phone, and I sent an email a while back expressing interest, but I'm waiting to reach out again until I've got my commercial checkride done.

Not just no but hell no.
There should be nothing compelling about flying sideways for 1000+ hours just to build time for your ATP. In this hiring market (subject to change), no-one will take you seriously when you have ATP mins but no actual flying experience.

How about Mokulale, Berry, Denver Air Connect, Cape Air, Great Lakes.... You'll probably need to CFI for a little bit, but there are jobs that you can do if you are willing to take on an adventure.

Right now you need Total time, Night, Cross Country, and PIC hours. CFI will do that for you. FE on a clapped out 727 will not.

Then you need Turbine, and especially ME Turbine hours. Any of the above will help with that.

Then you need ME Turbine PIC hours. FE in a clapped out 727 will not help.

If you can work both as an FE and CFI, that will help pay the bills in the near term and show your ability to train and succeed in complex jet operations. It is not, however, a long or mid term strategy.

I see being an FE as only part of the picture and the immediate next step...not a medium- or long-term career as a FE. When I talked to someone who started at IFL and was a FE, he transitioned to being a FO in their 135 operator way prior to ATP minimums...at about the 1 year mark, and eventually made his way to a major. The person I spoke to at Oshkosh as the same experience. My understanding is that I can only build a total of 500 hours toward my ATP minimums through a position as a flight engineer, and then the FE hours only count 3:1.

If I can start at IFL as an FE and that journey can take me through getting experience as an FO in their 135 operation, getting the ATP, gaining 121 experience, earning a few type ratings, and getting PIC turbine time, that's a win for everyone involved.

The (in my view significant) upside of the FE position is that I'd get to develop a MUCH deeper understanding of systems on large aircraft and I'd have actual experience in the operations of a 121 operator before my ATP minimums.

Of course, my next steps after the commercial ticket are to start work on my CFI and CFII, and build relationships with flight schools... but I'm trying to look at unconventional and overlooked paths. And if this opportunity opens up, it's likely something I'd jump at. In the past, I've been well-served by being open to and seeking out paths that have been a little bit unconventional.

you asked the questions above and a bunch of smart guys answered. Period the end

go with the advice or follow your own road

Same advice people were giving me in 2008 - "economy is down, go to college, the airlines want to see that and you'll need to wait for the regionals to start hiring again", "you'll need CFI decision making skills because that's PIC time" (insert laugh emoji here)... The reality of the world is hiring trends are dictated by overarching economic factors beyond our control, FE time isn't "valuable"... but you will literally never have another problem with a systems class again, or understanging how things work. 500 hours (1500 P121 FE x 1/3 = 500; FAR 61.159) of it will count towards the ATP (got a plan for the other hours?).

So anyway, I ignored that aforementioned advice and became as 727 FE instead, and have ended up in a comfortable career... all ACMI flying, lived "abroad" my entire adult life, and flown nearly every Boeing product without ever touching a RJ - but at the end of the day all that really is going to matter is "what's the pay and when's the days off?" - however you get there is up to you, but it is all going to be "imperceptable" (as in, "should I have done that?" second guessing) to you so long as you enjoy what you're doing. Though, I would suggest, you at least get IFL to "reduce to writing" a guarantee of upgrade to FO at some point between one and two years.

Flight engineer used to be the path to the right seat. Coming from a position of no experience, however, into the right seat, is tough, especially given that you've got zero experience, to start.

The siren song of a job that avoids instructing is a very common theme. I'm different. I don't want to instruct. I've put in my dues. I did a whopping xxx hours in general aviation, and many other tunes of entitlement.

What you need isn't time in a clapped out airplane adjusting the landing pressurization and reconnecting the split system breaker for the umpteenth time. It won't teach you about flying. It won't move your career along. You're looking at pading your logbook with time to circumvent a job where you'd actually be learning about flying.

I've known a number of FE's who attempted to upgrade, but who were so atrophied in the third seat that they couldn't remember how to fly, and failed their training. Most of them were great flight engineers, too, but weak pilots.

I'm a flight engineer, among other stuff; I'm not unsympathetic, and I like a cockpit that has a flight engineer. I think they're a valued crewmember and a great resource, albeit rapidly becoming extinct.

If you really want to learn airplane systems, become a mechanic.

If you really want to fly, be a pilot.

As you know JB, both are achievable. What pro pilot worth a salt doesn’t dream to have a bird of their own someday? Keep them airworthy by design. Fly for sport Don't screw up.

I am with everyone else. More specifically, build up to your 135 PIC minimums. Single-pilot IFR as a foundation would serve you, your pilots skills and your career much better than plumbing on the 727. There was a time when FE was a viable path, but that seat has fallen into obscurity.

You don’t know what you’re speaking on
 

IFL, USA Jet and k2 (my previous operator) NEVER hired into the FE seat.

they hire PFEs, Professional Flight Engineers.

And until you’ve had the opportunity and privilege to fly with highly intelligent, experienced and qualified “sideways” flyers, as a 4 Striped B727 pilot, my suggestion to you is that you sit down and zip it.

our guys came from the uniformed services (for the most part) and I’ll take anyone on the flight deck humble enough to recognize they are an integral part of the operation, versus someone like you who thinks he (or, she?) is better than the professionals who aviate “sideways” on a daily basis.

You can act indignant all you want but the fact is none of your FE skills, however integral they are, transfer to being a 1500TT FO, nor will the hiring board of a reputable 121 airline care too much.

Nice post, just completely irrelevant to the question I was replying to.

I bet a large quantity of money that the poster does not indend to become a 4-striped 727 pilot.
He is looking for a stepping stone to get to his ATP mins.

1/3 of the hours up to 500 can be counted towards the ATP.

Nice claim, but also wrong.

Calm down sparky - it's not that complicated... check essential and make all/most of the light bulbs turn off - then airplane go brrrr.

Remember on the -231... Landing Lights Switches... FWD - OFF and BACK - ON.

Did IFL get rid of there 727s, 216we has been parked for over a year and 215we has been in hamilton since april?

IFL first year FO pay
 

I’m looking for information on IFL, what I can realistically expect to earn first year as a FO. I am about a 45 minute drive from PTK, is this primarily an on-call? I don’t see any current positions open on their website, if anyone has any insight I’d appreciate it

Oh holy god… the PTSD and deja-vu all at the same time over that sentence. That and Essential Power being on the overhead. Thankfully only had to endure a 231 a handful of times before it went on to its next life as a beverage container. My head always hurt after flying it because of my eyes going crossed looking back at the strangely arranged FE panel to scream at the Engineer for not configuring the bleeds correctly and my ears are popping as we climb out.

All these years later I still wake up in the middle of the night screaming “why TWA, WHY…”

Them and Air France.

I knew Alan Ross, founder of IFL and what an extraordinary man. Kind, smart compassionate. I was flying for another employer and had many significant moments with him. In 35 years of aviation he stands out. May his memory be a blessing.

Okay Helen, let's get you to back to bed