I find that hard to believe. PM me with your name and I'll check it out. No chance this would happen, unless ICAO did it first. The ICAO change to 65 that came in 2006 was many, many years in the making.

(There is some ongoing legal action re. retroactivity, but that wouldn't affect us, as our over-60's could stay on the property as FE's.)

 

My emphasis added ...

Pay no attention to the results of this bid. Look to the most senior displaced DC8 FO, are they senior to you ? They are going to end up SOMEWHERE ! Probably a seat in SDF.

Than to muddy the waters for you even more, try to figure out where the displaced DC8 Captains go ... some will stay in seat, others will downgrade.

IOW FP, what you see now, is not what you could eventually hold.

 

CC,
Just answering her technical question <g> Reason put in the Dispacement comment. Am one DC8 Capt who is taking the downbid to avoid ANC. Don't see any lower 48 opportunity for Capt. Am taking one MD1F F/O spot in SDF. Many of the senior DC-8 Capts being displaced have A300 Capt as their first choice in displacement. Following the secondary and tertiary movements gets time consuming to track (especially as people change their bids)

 

This isn't your first airline is it ?

Think of it this way.

VACANCY bid = new aircraft create new openings for anyone to bid on.

REALIGNMENT VACANCY (like what just closed) = this is when the company has too many pilots on one fleet & seat (DC-8), and would like that excess to go someplace else where they feel there is a shortage (A300).

DISPLACEMENT (the reality) = where those at the bottom seniority of the excess fleet (DC-8) ultimately use their seniority to go wherever their seniority can take them.

Clear as mud ?

The difficult and confusing variable for me is two-fold. Where do the junior Captains like SaltyDog downgrade for quality of life vs left seat status ? That is an individual variable and is unpredictable.

And secondly, without pay differential (wide-body pay), there is nothing to really create a "senior" fleet ? ANC is VERY senior AND very junior, but only due to the retirement age change. Most places with pay differential would steer ANC into senior base. Not the case here ... just muddies the waters a little more when the senior don't have a money aircraft to chase.

Later, Brown CC

 

Dude! I just got my PPL so how am I supposed to know this stuff?

The truth is is that I just haven't paid much attention because I was happy in ONT but I really don't want to be in SDF unless I am going to be on reserve for a very very very very very long time in ONT. I guess it doesn't matter because I'm still in ONT.

 

Actually, the FO pay increase beyond about 7-8 years of longevity was mostly an inflation adjustment. If you look at the table below, which shows the percentage of FO pay versus the maximum CPT rate, you will see little increase in the 2006 contract after the first 7 or so years. By holding the maximum CPT rate down, and increasing years 2-7 disproportionately, everyone with more than about 8 years of longevity is making less than if pay had been increased across the board. The longer your career, the bigger the hit.

1998 vs. 2006 Contract
FO % of maximum Captain pay

Year 1998 2006
02 40.2% 51.3%
03 43.2% 52.4%
04 48.2% 54.8%
05 51.1% 56.5%
06 53.6% 58.2%
07 56.2% 59.8%
08 58.9% 61.5%
09 62.0% 63.4%
10 64.8% 65.5%
11 65.2% 66.9%
12 67.0% 68.8%

 

Someone needs to explain this to Rott who things that the old timers are getting such a great deal. I don't know what magic happens in his world after 50, but I can't wait to find out. Rott, you have your backup plan for the delayed upgrades, it is called higher pay rates.

 

With over $500K lost in retirement while the Farves basically work for free! Enough with the 3 wives and the insistance on procreating with every woman you marry! No wonder they don't have any money or want to be at home!

 

Roberto,
I know, but you are forgetting that even though the percentage only went up a bit, the Capt Rate went up from $190/hr to $237/hr. in this CBA. Compare apples to apples: If I went back to F/O under the old contract, I would only get $127/hr with this displacement.

Under the past contract was paid 180/hr as I started Capt, with current contract, will now get 164/hr as an F/O. Quite a jump from the $127 under the old contract. So can't just look at the smaller percentage increase, since Capts pay went up. So my reality is 180 to 164 is very survivable, and I enjoyed 2 years of Capt pay under the new CBA. Now will have less taxes, way better quality of life, no commute, etc etc. Will be junior Capt soon enough again. BTW, Congrats on the window seat!

Regarding comments on early F/O pay. The pay rates for the first 6-7 years as an F/O are very,very good in any market. On the next CBA, we can concentrate on moving up the later years again. Doesn't matter to you, but the majority of the folks on the property will finally work for that as we are all going to be thinking in unison as the majority of crews will be at the 7+ year point <g>.
This past CBA was very seniority devisive ( and reallly stupid IMO).
In any case, my feeling is that it's about moving everyone downfield to a better deal.

 

That's true, but the 190 rate began in mid-2002. That would be about 230 today with a CPI inflation adjustment and nothing more.