IPA and ACP's, the rest of the story.
07-22-2009, 02:43 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 320
IPA and ACP's, the rest of the story.
Well, well, election season is upon us once again! Considering the latest propaganda out of Fern Valley Rd I'd say His Majesty thinks we all have a very short memory. You see once upon a time His Majesty petitioned the NMB that ACP's are not the same class and craft as us lowly freight dogs and therefore the IPA should be exempt from the Dorsey case. Fast forward to the '06 campaign. Low and behold, His Majesty arises from the ashes like a Phoenix and conjurs up visions of sugar plums in the eyes of his public by contradicting himself once again and promising to get rid of the "airline within an airline" and fix the ACP problem once and for all! Like a true politician, make a promise but get out of it for 2 1/2 years by presenting a poorly written proposal for a C&B change that he stated was necessary before proceeding with his campaign promise. Needless to say the proposal was written in such a way to ensure it didn't pass by the artificially high mandate he required. You have to admit, it was a clever way to blame the membership for failing to deliver on his campaign promise. Considering this is the eve of campaign '09, is there any question as to why this very issue is once again placed before us? The question this time is are we going to behave like schoolboys in a strip club by continually throwing our money or votes at someone who has no intention on delivering what we want? Come on guys, let's use our bigger head here and see what is really going on. Let's be realistic, if the C&B vote didn't pass last time without the threat of a furlough, what makes any of us think it has a snowballs chance in hell of passing this time with the very realistic threat of furloughs still in the air?
The upcoming C&B vote isn't about fixing the "airline within an airline" problem, instead it's about believing in the tooth fairy and the Pied Piper leading us to distraction until after the ballots are counted. It reminds me of the scene from Animal House where the marching band follows the leader into a dead end alley. Ask yourself one question, why would you want to further risk losing your seat or your job by letting His Majesty place an ACP on the seniority list ahead of you? Instead, why don't we protect what is ours by virtue of our scope claus. If UPS desires to have 1,000 highly paid clerks who happen to be flight qualified but excluded from flying the line, so be it. Protect OUR jobs, not the ACP's. Feel free to talk amongst yourselves.
The upcoming C&B vote isn't about fixing the "airline within an airline" problem, instead it's about believing in the tooth fairy and the Pied Piper leading us to distraction until after the ballots are counted. It reminds me of the scene from Animal House where the marching band follows the leader into a dead end alley. Ask yourself one question, why would you want to further risk losing your seat or your job by letting His Majesty place an ACP on the seniority list ahead of you? Instead, why don't we protect what is ours by virtue of our scope claus. If UPS desires to have 1,000 highly paid clerks who happen to be flight qualified but excluded from flying the line, so be it. Protect OUR jobs, not the ACP's. Feel free to talk amongst yourselves.
07-22-2009, 03:55 PM
#3
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: On Food Stamps
Posts: 937
Originally Posted by say that again
Well, well, election season is upon us once again! Considering the latest propaganda out of Fern Valley Rd I'd say His Majesty thinks we all have a very short memory. You see once upon a time His Majesty petitioned the NMB that ACP's are not the same class and craft as us lowly freight dogs and therefore the IPA should be exempt from the Dorsey case. Fast forward to the '06 campaign. Low and behold, His Majesty arises from the ashes like a Phoenix and conjurs up visions of sugar plums in the eyes of his public by contradicting himself once again and promising to get rid of the "airline within an airline" and fix the ACP problem once and for all! Like a true politician, make a promise but get out of it for 2 1/2 years by presenting a poorly written proposal for a C&B change that he stated was necessary before proceeding with his campaign promise. Needless to say the proposal was written in such a way to ensure it didn't pass by the artificially high mandate he required. You have to admit, it was a clever way to blame the membership for failing to deliver on his campaign promise. Considering this is the eve of campaign '09, is there any question as to why this very issue is once again placed before us? The question this time is are we going to behave like schoolboys in a strip club by continually throwing our money or votes at someone who has no intention on delivering what we want? Come on guys, let's use our bigger head here and see what is really going on. Let's be realistic, if the C&B vote didn't pass last time without the threat of a furlough, what makes any of us think it has a snowballs chance in hell of passing this time with the very realistic threat of furloughs still in the air?
The upcoming C&B vote isn't about fixing the "airline within an airline" problem, instead it's about believing in the tooth fairy and the Pied Piper leading us to distraction until after the ballots are counted. It reminds me of the scene from Animal House where the marching band follows the leader into a dead end alley. Ask yourself one question, why would you want to further risk losing your seat or your job by letting His Majesty place an ACP on the seniority list ahead of you? Instead, why don't we protect what is ours by virtue of our scope claus. If UPS desires to have 1,000 highly paid clerks who happen to be flight qualified but excluded from flying the line, so be it. Protect OUR jobs, not the ACP's. Feel free to talk amongst yourselves.
The upcoming C&B vote isn't about fixing the "airline within an airline" problem, instead it's about believing in the tooth fairy and the Pied Piper leading us to distraction until after the ballots are counted. It reminds me of the scene from Animal House where the marching band follows the leader into a dead end alley. Ask yourself one question, why would you want to further risk losing your seat or your job by letting His Majesty place an ACP on the seniority list ahead of you? Instead, why don't we protect what is ours by virtue of our scope claus. If UPS desires to have 1,000 highly paid clerks who happen to be flight qualified but excluded from flying the line, so be it. Protect OUR jobs, not the ACP's. Feel free to talk amongst yourselves.
07-22-2009, 04:51 PM
#6
Tri-tanic operator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
There's nothing to get. I read it in your post and copied !
The doubters will argue ... what if we lose ? They keep doing what they are doing.
At least we know we need a better fix in 2012.
I want the jobs, not the people added to our list. The current approach may only net us the people. Unless we have some savy negotiating going on behind closed doors ...
The doubters will argue ... what if we lose ? They keep doing what they are doing.
At least we know we need a better fix in 2012.
I want the jobs, not the people added to our list. The current approach may only net us the people. Unless we have some savy negotiating going on behind closed doors ...
07-22-2009, 04:59 PM
#7
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: seated, but sometimes I get up and walk around
Posts: 96
Originally Posted by CactusCrew
There's nothing to get. I read it in your post and copied !
The doubters will argue ... what if we lose ? They keep doing what they are doing.
At least we know we need a better fix in 2012.
I want the jobs, not the people added to our list. The current approach may only net us the people. Unless we have some savy negotiating going on behind closed doors ...
The doubters will argue ... what if we lose ? They keep doing what they are doing.
At least we know we need a better fix in 2012.
I want the jobs, not the people added to our list. The current approach may only net us the people. Unless we have some savy negotiating going on behind closed doors ...
I agree...especially when I talk with some of the managers and they tell me they have no interest in joining the list....if we could get it agreed to (will it be snowing in hell in 2012 ????) I like the suggestion someone else had of enforcing and strengthening the scope clause while agreeing to end any efforts to bring the managers onto our list and under our union while also ending the hiring of flight qualified managers, thus over time they are replaced by IPA members as needed....or maybe ratio the number of managers to pilots...we have too many now at roughly 10%, but if we could freeze it at that or less it would at least guarantee that some managers are let go if the pilot force is reduced....even better would be to stop all management flying if there is a reduction in force etc etc etc....I could go on and on......as we all could.....
07-22-2009, 05:02 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 320
Originally Posted by CactusCrew
There's nothing to get. I read it in your post and copied !
The doubters will argue ... what if we lose ? They keep doing what they are doing.
At least we know we need a better fix in 2012.
I want the jobs, not the people added to our list. The current approach may only net us the people. Unless we have some savy negotiating going on behind closed doors ...
The doubters will argue ... what if we lose ? They keep doing what they are doing.
At least we know we need a better fix in 2012.
I want the jobs, not the people added to our list. The current approach may only net us the people. Unless we have some savy negotiating going on behind closed doors ...
07-22-2009, 06:23 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 767 captain
Posts: 2,696
Originally Posted by say that again
Considering this is the eve of campaign '09, is there any question as to why this very issue is once again placed before us?
07-23-2009, 05:49 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: I was acquired, Not Hired
Posts: 1,784
Originally Posted by say that again
Finally, someone gets it!
Imagine if UPS did put 300 on the street and then at peak we see Evergreen, ATI, and Connie jets on our ramp hauling our stuff. That's not a scope clause.
Imagine if we do integrate the Supv's onto the Seniority List and it results in furloughes of the bottom 300 (most are working at 1/2 pay as of July 19th in order to twart a 100% pay cut). That's not a scope clause either.
Be careful what you ask for...you may actually get it.
FF
