How do you figure that? The current rates might 'favor' the year 2-8 rates but that doesn't mean a higher 9+ years rate would've offset a lower pay during the first 9 years... Besides, not sure if the term 'favoring' year 2-8 is correct... Maybe it'd more accurate to say that we terminated the FO B-scale?

Also, I don't know enough about the subject yet and will keep researching it but if getting rid of the A-plan would encourage senior folks to retire before 65 then maybe we should at least look into that? Please don't take it personally but I think you'll agree with me that if phasing out of the A-plan would encourage let's say an extra 5% of 'Robertos' to leave earlier than 65 many if not most of us would probably be able to easily make up for the loss of the A-plan...

I think they will get when they reach top of scale , maybe not. Just as many need to educate themselves on the benefit of the A plan.:rolleyes:

[quote=Roberto;665806]Freightpuppy, I keep repeating this but it doesn't seem to sink in. We didn't fix "FO" rates. We changed the longevity scale, favoring those between 2-8 years of longevity at the expense of those with 9 or more years. Long-time FO's will be making less as a result.

Roberto,

You seem to be concerned more with semantics, rather than facts.

Fact: UPS F/O pay is the best in the industry.

Fact: UPS F/O pay improved significantly over the previous contract.

Fact: UPS F/O's will upgrade much later due to age 65.

I don't mean to sound negative, and it doesn't matter what you choose to label it. I am grateful that UPS F/O pay has improved since I will be an F/O most of my career.

Also, the time value of money (and being in a lower tax bracket) mean that higher F/O pay rates (for a long time) are worth more to me than "higher" Captain rates. If there were 7 year upgrades, it would be different (but it's not!)

I do NOT want to give up the A plan. I do see that UPS will try to buy it out, or eliminate it for those hired in the future.

Yes, he's back...AGAIN. And I believe that's considered a crew cut for an ONT based baby...:D

AT least you wont be a FE for all this time. So stop Whining! I remember J/seating on PANAM and the FE had been in that Seat for 18 YEARS. The FO Just Upgraded and He was a FE for 17 years.

Many of those "junior PanAm guys" ended up getting furloughed for up to 18 years. Almost all of them came back when recalled?

Not sure if this was directed at me.

I am not complaining. I am happy to be at brown. I am content being an F/O for a long time. I am grateful that the F/O rates are improved. That is all.

Are you the same capt. that tried to convince me that I shouldn't worry about FO rates because I would be a captain longer? LOL!

Even if what you say is true about favoring the 2-8 year people......maybe it was time since obviously the last contract hosed them completely.

You should see my son's hair now....it's a baby mullet but mama can't get herself to cut the cute curls. I've always liked a little longer hair on boys.

[QUOTE=Roberto;665806]Freightpuppy, I keep repeating this but it doesn't seem to sink in. We didn't fix "FO" rates.
QUOTE]

Actually we did fix the FO rates. That money came from the Capt. pay for the most part and not the FO's year 8 and up. :D

Just wait until Age 70 comes around...


We would not even be having this discussion if it weren't for the age 65 rule. There would have been a few hundred retirements last year, this year, next year, and for years to come. That ended real fast!