PastV1

There's a good reason to not care. Here's another "those senior guys are screwing me, so I hope we don't get a better rate for the 777 and screw them! Yea, that's it!"

Heard that idea on this forum many times. Talk about short sighted....

Past...

FDXLAG

Me nah. I don't want to screw em cause they are senior. I just don't care what the guys who bid it with out a pay rate get and would rather not give up to much to make their life better. And you don't have to be very senior to hold it, have not looked closely, but it seems the right seat is more jr than the other wide bodies.

Gunter

Rest assured that no deal or bargaining position will be put forth that will subrogate seniority. There's really never any fear of that if you know how this union stuff works.

The danger is letting them take too big a slice of the pie. Some of them want a bit of your pie too. That not only gives them too much, it hurts unity. I've heard we're focusing on that recently

Paddles

Ba Da Bing

Couldn't agree more. If guys are naive enough to bid a Pig-n-a-Poke and help out the company big time in these tough 4a2b times, then they should get exactly what we have negotiated for....... Nothing!

Guys continually jump on the hand grenade with selfish intent, and then scream foul when the company pulls the pin.

If on the Hong Kong and 777 bids, we had acted like a unified crew force (certain high union officials notwithstanding), and realized that not bidding was our only leverage over the bean counters, we could have had a better HKG package and a settled 777 rate. This would have let the entire crew force bid either one of these, knowing exactly what they were getting based on their seniority.

What possible motivation does the company have to make either of these issues any better now? Absolutely none!

However, when folks bid HKG FO because they didn't want to go to the back of the 727 in MEM. Or HKG CA, when he can't even hold 727 CA in MEM, start squalling about their lot in life...... Sorry, no sympathy here.

You don't get what you deserve, You get what you negotiate for and your seniority allows for!
(read that in a magazine on an airplane once, so it must be true)

MeXC

>>What possible motivation does the company have to make either of these issues any better now?<<

How about...pushing back the age 60 retirement a little; or maybe instead of increasing our hourly rates they offer more of that great-deal hidden money and some amelioration of that HKG LOA; or how about a tweak, here or there, to the vacation system for ULR rates for the 777?
They have all kinds of motivation to offer a better FDA LOA and 777 rates.

FDXLAG

I see the point; it probably is a little short sighted to not go for 777 pay rates. I just think there are much bigger things to worry about.

When the company coughs up all my hours lost to 4A2b (which disproportionately hurt the jr guys) then maybe I can start worrying about the company not having A 380 work rules to go with some pilots (who certainly do not worry about my QOL) not having A 380 pay rates.

Dadof6

Shack! "Pig in a Poke" is also spot-on. Improved FDA LOA and 777-specific pay rate are WAY down the list. Bid what you want to fly. That would include domicile (for those in HKG) AND the current pay rate for the airframe. Despite many blanket assurances from our former MEC Chairman that A380 = B777, it just ain't so. But rotsa ruck to all you guys "hoping" for mo money with your 777 bid. Looks like the bid will be filled tomorrow. Out & backs to MSY indeed!

iarapilot

F... an A on that. To not know that we had ALL of the leverage on those 2 deals makes me question the mental capacity of those who seem to not realize that fact and who acted in an un-unified way. The "knuckleheaditis" around here will probably never end!

MEMFO4Ever

Nor should it. Corporations love human fodder that voluntarily fatten the bottom line with nothing to show for it.

777? Looks like a widebody, pays like a widebody. Nothing to see here.

Share the pain? Uncle, uncle...

nakazawa

B-777 pay rates should be an issue to everybody. I won't ever get to fly it, but jack that pay scale up as high as we can get it. Same with the bottom of the list - I'd like to see the B-727 S/Os get a HUGE pay raise. And while we're at it, international over-rides, per-diems both need enhanced. We're in the worst recession since the depression, and FDX Corp is still in the black. I want some of it!

The big issue the Company will need to deal with in the very short future is the transition from Supplemental Ops to FLAG Ops, so they can operate the Big Boeing over 16 block hours. Until 4.A.2.b. is resolved, I would be TOTALLY against any kind of ULR LOA that would allow the operation of that aircraft. Besides that, Crew Planning and Crew Resource Scheduling, along with GOCC are going to have their hands full with the 30/7, 32/7, and the 100 in a calendar month - restrictions they've NEVER had to deal with.

As for the rest of what we have and what we want, I hope everybody wrote their LEC Reps with CBA inputs. Chapters we're happy with shouldn't be held hostage to make gains in other areas. If the pie isn't big enough, call the bakery and get more slices! The Company just bilked us for nearly $40 Million, and I want it back!

Nakazawa