Ups 400-
10-31-2009, 09:22 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: UPS Captain
Posts: 837
Originally Posted by Displaced Again
Let's just say I have been avoiding the fray for a long time...
There is way too much crap going on to be tearing our union apart like this UPS is enjoying this, as now we probably have two wedges in our ranks. The over 60 guys are alienated, and the bottom 300 are too.
Two candidates have ethics issues, and represent old school thinking. One seems to be for transparency, holding UPS' feet to the fire, and working for us, doing OUR will, not the EB's.
Why is this so hard to understand, if we go after the manager positions, require all the IPA pilots to sign up for CRAF (doesn't mean you have to do it), fix these NON-CONTRACTUAL bid packages (oh ya we haven't had a compliant one yet since the new rules were enacted in 0701), there is not so much of an over staffing problem. Instead of using welfare to keep pilots around, lets create REAL jobs. CRAF was worth close to 3/4 of a BILLION dollars, just as a start.
There is way too much crap going on to be tearing our union apart like this UPS is enjoying this, as now we probably have two wedges in our ranks. The over 60 guys are alienated, and the bottom 300 are too.
Two candidates have ethics issues, and represent old school thinking. One seems to be for transparency, holding UPS' feet to the fire, and working for us, doing OUR will, not the EB's.
Why is this so hard to understand, if we go after the manager positions, require all the IPA pilots to sign up for CRAF (doesn't mean you have to do it), fix these NON-CONTRACTUAL bid packages (oh ya we haven't had a compliant one yet since the new rules were enacted in 0701), there is not so much of an over staffing problem. Instead of using welfare to keep pilots around, lets create REAL jobs. CRAF was worth close to 3/4 of a BILLION dollars, just as a start.
11-01-2009, 06:20 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: F/O
Posts: 328
Originally Posted by Displaced Again
So right now, you would rather be lied to by at least one of the candidates, that he can give us everything including a better retirement with the current market conditions as they exist now. Why do all of you have a problem with the truth? Lets be realistic, UPS is going after the Managers A-plan and ours is next. This doesn't mean we have to cave in, but we do have to be realistic... As far as the other candidate, he is WAY too wet behind the ears, if he wins, it might be time to look for a new career because UPS is going to take him and us to the cleaners.
Sounds better to me.
N_H
11-01-2009, 06:25 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: F/O
Posts: 328
Originally Posted by Displaced Again
Let's just say I have been avoiding the fray for a long time...
Two candidates have ethics issues, and represent old school thinking. One seems to be for transparency, holding UPS' feet to the fire, and working for us, doing OUR will, not the EB's.
Two candidates have ethics issues, and represent old school thinking. One seems to be for transparency, holding UPS' feet to the fire, and working for us, doing OUR will, not the EB's.
The other old timer is a pacifist, which does not seam to get anything accomplished as you stated w/ all the non-compliant bid packages, etc.
And personally I have no confidence in the young guy.
Still looking for a reason to vote for any of them.
11-04-2009, 03:05 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 320
Originally Posted by Airbum
no i guess not, however it does get old. I remember attending a contract meeting with the then new negotiation committee. This committee all resigned after the soon to arrive election cycle. in around 2004 -05 or so.
I was plainly told not to expect pay ANY where near the higher paying major airlines. They said those pay scales where for guys with 20-25 years on property flying big wide bodies at the pax airlines. I said I would sign up for that deal.comparing our pay Just a short 1/2 decade later we would be there. Looking for the $311 per hour at UPS to keep up with inflation adjustment. $351 pr hour for jumbos (MD-11, 747-400)
As now we fly 747-400 for what we flew 727-100s We aimed low in 1998 and well stayed there.
I was plainly told not to expect pay ANY where near the higher paying major airlines. They said those pay scales where for guys with 20-25 years on property flying big wide bodies at the pax airlines. I said I would sign up for that deal.comparing our pay Just a short 1/2 decade later we would be there. Looking for the $311 per hour at UPS to keep up with inflation adjustment. $351 pr hour for jumbos (MD-11, 747-400)
As now we fly 747-400 for what we flew 727-100s We aimed low in 1998 and well stayed there.
Comparing ourselves to something that no longer exists has no point other than to frustrate the miss-informed.
11-04-2009, 03:40 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MD CA
Posts: 705
First let me say I don't give a "---" about Andy's numbers. People around here treat his word as Gospel. I've always seen him as an extreme pessimist.
Second, "We" are behind the inflation curve. Always have been if you go back to 1991 contract.
And just because something no longer exists, doesn't mean the Pilots groups should not want to get it back.
As a profitable airline, our pay if compared to the pre BK court mandated payrates cuts, would be in the Mid 300's an hour.
Second, "We" are behind the inflation curve. Always have been if you go back to 1991 contract.
And just because something no longer exists, doesn't mean the Pilots groups should not want to get it back.
As a profitable airline, our pay if compared to the pre BK court mandated payrates cuts, would be in the Mid 300's an hour.
11-04-2009, 05:27 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 652
Originally Posted by say that again
I suggest you read Andy M's numbers on our pay rate vs. inflation back to 1998. The fact is we have more than kept pace with inflation since that time.
Comparing ourselves to something that no longer exists has no point other than to frustrate the miss-informed.
Comparing ourselves to something that no longer exists has no point other than to frustrate the miss-informed.
10yr Capt $173 in 1998, inflation adjusted to 2008 is $227
The 2008 pay scale for a 10 yr Capt in 2008 was $221. This is less then the rate inflation.
A 12 year Capt in 1998 = $176, inflation adjusted = $230. 12 year Capt pay in 2008 $231. $1 above inflation.
My contrasts are simply stating that although IPA pilots have become MORE productive during the last decade while their pay has stayed level when adjusted for inflation. Also that our current rates are well below what others have achieved albeit lost during bankruptcy.
I haven't referenced AM slides for this. Do his number show something different?
11-04-2009, 06:13 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 1 ft out the door
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by Airbum
I just checked my old contract:
10yr Capt $173 in 1998, inflation adjusted to 2008 is $227
The 2008 pay scale for a 10 yr Capt in 2008 was $221. This is less then the rate inflation.
A 12 year Capt in 1998 = $176, inflation adjusted = $230. 12 year Capt pay in 2008 $231. $1 above inflation.
My contrasts are simply stating that although IPA pilots have become MORE productive during the last decade while their pay has stayed level when adjusted for inflation. Also that our current rates are well below what others have achieved albeit lost during bankruptcy.
I haven't referenced AM slides for this. Do his number show something different?
10yr Capt $173 in 1998, inflation adjusted to 2008 is $227
The 2008 pay scale for a 10 yr Capt in 2008 was $221. This is less then the rate inflation.
A 12 year Capt in 1998 = $176, inflation adjusted = $230. 12 year Capt pay in 2008 $231. $1 above inflation.
My contrasts are simply stating that although IPA pilots have become MORE productive during the last decade while their pay has stayed level when adjusted for inflation. Also that our current rates are well below what others have achieved albeit lost during bankruptcy.
I haven't referenced AM slides for this. Do his number show something different?
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