Cargo Man

Well it’s really no mystery that CA’s make more then FO’s. And its no mystery that there is always going to be someone around that makes more then me.
That being said, with some people you could triple their wages and they still would have nothing to show for it, let alone a good character.

Daniel Larusso

I would submit that any captain who thinks like this, doesn't have FO's or SO's who are actually listening to what they're saying. Also, while we thankfully have many crewmembers who think differently, from a corporate standpoint as long as we have the mentality above I think the debrief item on the checklist is pretty much useless.

Deuce130

I'll throw my support towards Goose17 on this one. Well done, bro. And, no, this is not simply a "yeah, stick it to that old ba$tard" type cheer. The debrief item was legitimate and I'm glad that CA got called on it. I flew with a non member (KB) a couple of years ago who also bragged about his Gulf Coast condo also. I imagine not paying union dues for so many years would help pay down the cost of that investment. I wish I had mentioned it.

Good job, Goose.

Edit: NO! I am NOT comparing contractually allowed items with being a non-member. I only compare the two to illustrate that some guys don't realize how they sound when it comes to bragging about money and toys.

FDX1

Really? So the F/O was bothered by the Captain's poor "team building" skills at the brief and shouldn't say anything in the debrief about it? WRONG!!!

Guess what "Chief" not only should he but its his responsibility to mention it to him. It just might keep Captain X from making the same mistake next flight and maybe not create such animosity even before they step one foot in the cockpit door. Sorry to say there are always a few that just don't get it and even in light of the fact that the issue is probably the single most frustrating aspect of our job at this moment.

I agree "this type of animosity shouldn't be created in our cockpit". Unfortunately the only reason there was any animosity was a direct result of the Captains pre-brief dribble. In fact the F/O did everything correct by discussing it after the flight to give Captain Clueless some SA for future flights.

Its not our job to worry about what the other guy chooses to do as a result of 4a2b. It is our job to mind the seriousness of the issue and not create significant obstacles to a safe, effective, professional cockpit environment.

Please, report this F/O to ProStan so he can provide the next article for Straight-in-Approach on "How to keep it professional in light of stupidity".

Commando

Like my comments in a Different Thread, you guys are screwed. After reading this Thread and the earlier one, I see you guys at Purple have Zero, Nahda, Unity. Having Captains act that way is very poor. And then you have Captains coming on here and supporting it. Very Sad.

Hope you guys have a Strong MEC chairman. This is not good for us at UPS, since you guys go First this time.

767 Captain at UPS-

FDX1

Great, now we have a UPS Captain zeroing in on our "Unity" based on 15 FedEx pilots rants.

Come on man, aren't the UPS threads very interesting?

nakazawa

Sirs:
Please refer to FCIF 10-0017 (Admin). Next, google H.R. 4343 - Fair Treatment of Experienced Pilots Act. If you have WORD, reference 'senile dementia' and 'stupid'. I think those will cover most issues here.
As a Captain, I need to weigh many factors when I sign for the jet, not the least of which is knowing the crew is all headed in the same direction.
If a crew member decides he's going to 'sell back' sick hours when he retires, he must FIRST have over 686 hours in his bank. You do the math, but at left seat pay and in most cases, that's a HUGE give back for little gain. And, I believe MUS is a PDO trip - so unless he's got a HUGE sick bank, he's killing himself. Perhaps the Captain would have been better served with an accounting lesson, some basic math skills, and a review of his 401K plan. I know there are F/Os out there doing infinitely better than me on that.
Next, HR 4343 made a HUGE change that has caused much consternation. The rules changed in the beginning, middle, or end of the game - depending on where you happened to be. I'll have 14 years at FDX when I turn 60, and regardless of my post-60 plan, this was a bonus for me if I elect. If we have a good negotiating committee with a strong crew force, retaining the age 60 retirement without penalty should be OUR focus. MEC - TAKE NOTE!
I put the vocabulary lesson in for my benefit, and to keep this 'lite'. We had a Captain in ANC that opted at 23+ years to bid to the panel of the -10 so 'she'd' have a 25 year retirement. She went from W/B Captain's pay to S/O pay, which some claimed would be less than her retirement pay. I didn't do the math, but what I do know, her vacation buy-back was at S/O pay. Her sick-bank buy-back would have been at S/O pay. *** was she thinking?
So - I appreciate the tactfulness of being brought up to speed on a LOT of things, including financial management. At my seniority, I've been blessed with 59-62 CH hour months most of the time 4.A.2.b. has been in affect (one 39 CH month by mistake). There are some F/Os right now that can protect carry-over and are doing better than others, but they also gave up the left seat. Should I counsel them on their 4.A.2.b. behavior? MEC/NC - TAKE NOTE. Scheduling might need re-worked in our next CBA.
Here are some rules I was taught when I plumb'd on the jurassic jet:
1. S/Os DO NOT TIP!!!
2. Captain's on DRF pay all the limo tips (no exceptions cheap a$$e$)!
3. Captain's on DRF buy the first round, even if there's not a second round
4. Unless mutually asked, don't discuss
a. Ex spouses (women, ED was a medical problem back then)
b. Religion (I happened to own a 10 speed, but no, I'm not)
c. AMWAY - my wife has used it - I'm not buying any
d. PAY - our calendars are open, pay rates are in the CBA
5. Things open for discussion
a. How to dispose of neon light-bulbs made in China (not legal to make them in the US) because of the HAZ (mercury I think) in them.
b. How to dispose of a Toyota PRIUS (batteries are highly toxic and the car is a piece of crap)
c. FDX's contribution to JGR and the #11 NASCAR Team during 4.A.2.b. (that's Joe Gibbs Racing for the non-race enthusiasts)
d. FDX's contribution to the PGA's FedEx Cup during 4.A.2.b. (that's professional golf and T***r W**ds for the non-golfers)
e. FDX's contribution to Formula 1 Racing during 4.A.2.b. (that's the number 1 racing sport in the world, except for maybe NASCAR).
f. Why FedEx doesn't have an NHRA team when DHL and UPS do (that's National Hot Rod Association (dragsters and funny cars)). Talk about the world on time - 1,000 feet in 4 seconds!!!
g. Bonneville Salt Flats racing - we've got a former MD-11 Captain that designed a car that holds a land speed record there.
h. R**s B***z - he's retired and we'll all get a good laugh

Folks, in ANC we've been fighting the disputed pairing battle, questioning the hotel standby plan with MEM crews, and the non-existent optimizer. There are worse things out there, but congrats to GOOSE for compartmentalizing and waiting until the end of the trip for the discussion. Just maybe that's what CRM is all about.
Very Respectfully,
Nakazawa

Sideshow Bob

At the least it's an interesting sociological "debate" to ponder. IMO it only becomes a safety issue in this instance if the F/O allowed/allows it to cloud his/her judgement and how they interact with the CPT in the airplane. I'd have nothing to do with him outside of it for sure. The CPT, while clueless, callous, selfish and pathetic is fine with it (obviously bragging about me, me, me and me), and isn't stressed at all.

But no doubt, if the company came after retirement issues, he would be screaming for the junior guys to race to his aid, and go on and on about unity and how important the union is.

Bitme

It's amazing to me that you can see this so clearly 767 yet many of our guys just don't get it. Personally I want to thank your management team for settling with you guys last time when they did just before peak otherwise we would probably still not have a contract. Don't worry you're contract will probably settle first, which will again force FDX mgt to do something. With the I've got mine mentality at purple I just want to get to 25 years without losing some of what we have. Good luck to you.

golfandfly

I find it somewhat amusing the UPS guy talks about our unity and how it is going to hurt their upcoming negotiations. If UPS had such great unity, why is that your guys didn't volunteer enough to make the savings target on the MOU?

While I agree that our unity is terrible, you should take care of your own house before worrying about ours....