navigatro

It is a shame when people let pride and ego get in the way of learning and safety.

navigatro

I have read the report, and I disagree completely.

bcrosier

I'm glad you know so much about every other aircraft type out there that you conclusively know there would be nothing to benefit the rest of us simpletons from this event. Heaven forbid we might all learn a bit from this incident.

If it's no big secret, then why don't you share (in broad terms), what caused this event? You sir, are coming across as a grand champion tool bag.

FliFast

When I got hired across the street at Brown, I had 700 hours (mostly PIC time) of Cessna time (all types)...and I know I was lucky.

FF...the FLAP.

JetPiedmont

So when you say you're "building time at UPS", you're not kidding! Had you been a UPS employee at a different job when you were hired? Either way, well done!

JetPiedmont

I agree completely. As particular as the MD-10 and MD-11 is to fly, I would think any insights FDX was able to have from this rather disturbing incident would have been shared with other MD-10 and MD-11 operators, but doesn't seem to have been.

Laughing_Jakal

There are no other MD-10 operators.....we invented it.

bcrosier

So, is the cause of this COMPLETELY unique to the MD-10, or could it have possible application do the DC-10, MD-11, or even other types? Is this information so sensitive that everyone else needs to be kept in the dark? As an MD-11 pilot, I'd really like to know.

Daniel Larusso

Nothing to be proud of Russ....

hyperone

bcrosier, the problem with the high altitude holding is that many FMS's are not designed to keep you out of the coffin corner of high altitude and slow speed driving you below an airspeed that your aircraft can maintain while holding level flight. The ICAO holding speed of 265 kts is simply too slow when above about FL250. The problem is made worse by an FMC that normally limits bank angles to 15 degrees or less for cruise, but will go to 25 degrees for standard rate turns in holding. Even worse, a high altitude stall in the MD-11 or MD-10 may or may NOT be preceded by stick shaker.
You are allowed to ask ATC to hold at 280kts/.80M (whichever is lower) if you expect or encounter turbulence when using FAA TERPS, Old PANS OPS, or New PANS OPS. Fedex Safety says we can and must ask for this higher speed when above FL250.
bcrosier, there's no secret and hopefully all air carrier now train their pilots that if they are directed to hold above FL250, that they do it at 280kts/.80M (or whatever your aircraft's minimum safe speed at altitude in a 25 degree turn is) and tell ATC that's what they are doing.