ptarmigan

Cross controls at any altitude are a non-issue, just add POWER when you do it!

Albief15

My friend Adler,

Like you, I sort of thought this was wierd too for a while. Then it hit me... We ain't single seat guys anymore (dammit), and this is not for the benefit of the pilot flying (say...for instance..the FO). This is there so the P-NF (say...the poor b-stard who signs for the jet) doesn't have to GUESS if you are going to save it in the flare or not. If you nail the X-wind by zeroing out the drift at 200 feet, odds are if the crosswinds diminish as you approach the ground you can always take the amount of rudder and aileron OUT. The result...if you do that like a monkey and don't reduce power, is simply an increase in airspeed and a slightly long landing/float. By the same token, the courtesy also works for the FO, as you aren't guessing if these fine gentleman (or lady) on the left will "save" it at 20 feet with enough rudder kicked in end game.

Conversely, failure to put in the right corrections, then trying to fix it end game, can result in a sink/side drift in the last 50 feet that the PNF needs to analyze, assess, and correct...all in a VERY short period. 99% of the time the other guy nails it...hell...we are all solid pilots, right?

The problem, however, is that "oh...*******" one percent situation. Better to know at 200 - 100 feet the other pilot is NOT getting it done verses finding out end game.

By the way--wonder where this epiphany of understanding came from? Anyone who was an RTU/FTU IP and rode around in a back seat realized there were times when even with a high performance fighter, there were a couple spots a student could put you (if you let them) that were close to unrecoverable. Some of the most solid F-15 drivers I ever knew had students scape tails, drop in landings, or in the worst case (a solo student) turn off a high speed too fast and put a jet on its side (your new Sigma Chi name: Jowler!). The whole 200-100 foot thing would not be an issue if we got to fly the MD-11 solo. We don't. So--it allows us to jump into a cockpit with a dude/dudette we've never met, know nothing about, and hopefully still have a few extra heartbeats to say "go around!" if it looks dorked up. Doing IND-ORD turns with the same pilot all week....kick it out in the flare I say. Showing up in Sydney after a 10 hour flight facing 25 knot crosswinds with with someone I've never met before? In that case, the 100-200 foot buffer helps me help them...

Just my two cents. I'm new. I reserve the right to still be AFU.

FDXFLYR

MAC/AMC taught big plane drivers to feed in crosswind controls only after landing was assured, which was interpreted to mean wheels over the runway. I still do that today in the MD-11 and it works just fine, I just have to tell the captain before hand so he/she knows what to expect.

I know this is not what the company wants but then, they're the same group of nuts who told us to operate in the highest mode of automation and what happened? Just as the ole' Tiger guys in ANC have been preaching all along, our flying skills deminished until today the company policy now is to do exactly what the Tiger guys have been saying all along.

skypine27

Albie, question for you as I don't see it that way....

The Airbus and 757 fleet are taught the industry standard, "keep the crab in until the flare then put in the correction", method. I presume the 777 fleet is as well (someone on it can let us know).

Only the -11 is taught the strange, C-172, start the slip at 200 AGL thing. So I don't believe its a PF/PNF thing?

(But isn't this thread about how "great" an -11 base in HKG under the current LOA would be?)

Albief15

Please see above

Adlerdriver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albief15

My friend Adler,

Nahhh. No offense, but I don’t buy that. He doesn’t have to guess if I’m going to hand fly the departure or approach, use auto-brakes, 50 flaps or any of the other options we encounter daily. That’s because we brief those things or use our standards. How we choose to land in a cross-wind should be no different. Have a standard and then brief the other guy if you plan to do something different.



Again, I have to differ. You can slip an aircraft in a no wind situation. Now, maybe I’m the one AFU but once I get those cross-controls in, I have a much harder time getting feedback on the cross-wind. Also, using your “benefit of the PM” logic, is he now going to be wondering if you’re going to get the unnecessary x-wind controls out? Sounds like adjustments like that in the flare might be just as challenging and “fraught with peril” as just planning on kicking it out if the flare to start with. ‘Cuz maybe, just maybe, there won’t be a cross-wind by the time you get to the flare. Why make a bunch of changes you won’t need and have to un-do? Just so the guy to your left isn’t wondering about something you could have told him about at top of descent? Albie, did you give someone else your login password?

SabreDriver

Oh really.... I would respectfully disagree. There is plenty of factual research out there that directly contradicts your statement.

But like Albie, I reserve the right to be AFU.

SD

ATLCFI

I flew the Airbus and we had the option to use the crab or slip method. Same with 757 which I'm currently flying.

It depends on what you flew before getting here as to which method you'll probably use. In my squadron in the military the wing down top rudder was a standard. It allows you to line the longitudinal axes of the plane to the centerline of the runway to detect early the amount of wind correction that is needed.

Either way its up to the individual to master it and communicate their technique to the other pilot.

NoHaz

Not in the 11. Any crab is debriefed as how not to do it.

Haywood JB

I may be mistaken, but in the Bus, 72, and 75, for the FO's at least, they wanted to see a crosswind input no later than 50 feet. Not so for the captain(which leads to Albie's comment of not knowing if my captain is going to pull a x-wind correction out at the last second!)

More cents...or nonsense...

HJB