I think management's demand for disciplinary action based on ASAP results is just mis-direction. I think the real agenda is that they do not want us to have access to an FAA-sanctioned channel for us to air our issues because then they would have to act on the inputs and their actions would be monitored by the FAA. So instead, knowing that we would never agree to an ASAP program that allows them the ability to use the output as the basis for discipline, they continue to demand discipline knowing we'll refuse the program. That way get what they want while blaming us for refusing the program.

So what does this have to do with LOSA? LOSA appeases the pilots by making us think something will actually change and puts the FAA at bay all without obligating management to change anything. Since the results never go to the FAA in any identified way the program insulates management from having to take any action. There is no real oversight of the LOSA program or its results by the FAA so there is nothing holding management's feet to the fire.

I like the concept of the LOSA program provided it was going to be transparent and cooperative here at FedEx. I just don't see any indication from management's past behavior that suggests they will actually act on the results. Our schedules won't change, management's cultural bias against the pilots won't change, and management will just ignore whatever results they choose. It won't change anything at FedEx.

If the results from the LOSA program revealed that say, 20% of the crew force on a given aircraft was incorrectly performing a particular action, which could possibly result in an aircraft accident or death, and the training department was then able to get the word out to the crew force through emphasizing it during recurrent training, would that make a difference? (Man, what a run-on sentence!)

"And one of the side bennies of doing a LOSA observation hop is that the observer gives you a critique sheet to fill out anonymously and turn in at your leisure. "

Why not let everyone fill out a critique? Put it on the web. Sounds like cherry picking to me

:confused: How can you fill out a critique on the observer if you haven't been observed?

"If the results from the LOSA program revealed that say, 20% of the crew force on a given aircraft was incorrectly performing a particular action, which could possibly result in an aircraft accident or death, and the training department was then able to get the word out to the crew force through emphasizing it during recurrent training, would that make a difference?"

You're describing the function of Standards. Line checks examine every captain every year whereas this LOSA is only looking an extremely limited number of flights over just a two month period of time. I cannot see how anything statistically significant can come from a LOSA that Standards doesn't already assess, document, quantify and implement corrective actions.

Some people fly differently when standards is not on board.

mx 727 read the previous post by nitefrght: "And one of the side bennies of doing a LOSA observation hop is that the observer gives you a critique sheet to fill out anonymously and turn in at your leisure. No identifying data on the critique sheet either, but it DOES ask questions about the safety culture and how much you trust management. ""

Specifically the last part above. The question is why cant we all do that?

If anyone has a specific issue with the safety culture, they can always fill out a safety report.

While this is true, most non-standard performance can be attributable to either ignorance or arrogance. Identifying non-standard trends and highlighting them in recurrent will help the ignorant. Very little except perhaps outright threats from: pro-stan; other crewmembers; or management will help those arrogant enough to operate in a non-standard manner, while knowing full well that they do in fact know how to operate in a standard fashion.

JJ

Took some notes? No debrief for crew? My question is, to whom and/or to where were those notes taken?

If a neutral observer writes down notes about what happened in our cockpit, you better bet I'm going to ask to see them!