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Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyathink (Post 837238)

Where were you before 1988? UPS used contractors then. UPS used other airlines before that. Why would they go back?

And when UPS started their UPS branded airline they didn't get the best candidates, did they?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyathink (Post 837145)

UPs does not try to bust unions. If that was the case they had a great opportunity in 1997 to do it.

I guess ruining peoples lives(bankruptcy, foreclosure, moving your family....), losing customers and market share for the sake of management bonuses is a "great opportunity".

Yank oh Tis......Did you read what Salty had to say? That is leadership. You could learn something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyathink (Post 837158)

In a DOT filing in 2007, UPS Airlines reported a third-quarter net loss of $78.6 million, reversed from a $15.5 million profit the previous year, and a $117.5 million loss for the 12 months ended Sept. 30, 2007.

Remember this was during the start of the recession. Things were better then than now.

I have some questions for you.
The FAA raised the mandatory retirement age to 65 right after 300 pilots were hired right?

UPS retired the 727,74 classic and DC-8 fleets right? The majority of these aircraft reached the end of their life cycle or would be cost prohibitive to have the heavy checks done right?

We are seeing the worst economic times since the Great Depression right?
If there are 100 dc-8 crewmembers making $185k for an aircraft that isnt operated anymore what do you do?

If UPS is operating fewer flights due to economic conditions what do you do?

UPS is operating with 40 plus fewer aircraft than at its peak what do you do?

Should UPS pick and choose who stays and who goes or base it on seniority?

If you were running the airline what would you do?

I'm not a UPS Manager or a UPS Pilot. I'm actually out of work because of the economic conditions. My family and I have been part of UPS for over 50 years in the union ranks, management and in executive management. It gives me a unique perspective of the situation. I will say that UPS isnt the same company it once was. Then again the world isn't the same way it was either.

You have made some very good points in your posts here and you have given a good "big picture" overview.
Salty has made some very good points also, and we have also seen a lot of disgruntled sour grapes bashing from a rather limited and self-centered viewpoint which is understandable.

Tough times all around. Don't give up, and try to see the whole of what is happening. Sometimes it is hard to tell who the good guys are and sometimes the story doesn't have any good guys or winners.
Things will change over time and we can all try to make it better.
Not much comfort, but letting a bunch of people blow smoke up your wazoo isn't going to help things at all. Get the facts, and keep an open mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunter (Post 837256)

And when UPS started their UPS branded airline they didn't get the best candidates, did they?

Actually, they did.:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunter (Post 837256)

And when UPS started their UPS branded airline they didn't get the best candidates, did they?

Absolutely UPS did no question there. Thats not the issue though. The issue is so many UPS pilots are in the dark or hear just one side. What would you think if this was the only place to get information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustUnderPar (Post 837297)

So 1800 management and admin positions eliminated meant nothing? How many customers look on here and see what you post. Great job at helping people keep jobs. Who was that broker that said he will no longer use UPS because of all the mis information and one sided post here? Again great job. :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyathink (Post 837158)

I'm not a UPS Manager or a UPS Pilot. I'm actually out of work because of the economic conditions. My family and I have been part of UPS for over 50 years in the union ranks, management and in executive management.

So I have to ask, why are you posting here ?

Quote:

If you're a working pilot, please join our free community and you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you don't want to register (or not a working pilot), you can still use the Google search box in the upper left of this screen to search all forum posts!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jungle (Post 837304)

I have read your posts for sometime and you are always a person of reason. I have seen alot with UPS, on the management and union sides. I know how hard it is to work for UPS. I am out of work now. I could bash my former employer but it wasnt their fault. This economy is nothing my generation has seen before. We could sit back and blame everybody or work to fix it. If it wasn't for my UPS stock that I've had before the airline existed and before UPS delivered to all 50 states, I would be homeless right now. I'm in a region of the country due to a job transfer from my former employer. Opportunities are not great here. My nearest family member is 1000 miles away. Everybody has choices in life on who and what they do for a living. When you have two sides (union and management) there is going to be resentment on both sides towards each other. Kool Aid is an equal opportunity thirst quencher on both sides. Imagine if both sides could work together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CactusCrew (Post 837372)

So I have to ask, why are you posting here? Quote:
If you're a working pilot, please join our free community and you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you don't want to register (or not a working pilot), you can still use the Google search box in the upper left of this screen to search all forum posts!

So furloughed pilots are not allowed to post here either? Retired Pilots are not allowed to post here? I have been a member since 2005. Tell that to all of the out of work pilots out there that they cannot post here since you disagree with my posts. What about the guy who is a freight forwarder that posts here. If you want to try to get me kicked off because I have a different perspective than you then no worries. This is the most I have posted here today. Why you ask because there are so many times that there is always a one sided point of view.

I post here because I have been part of UPS all of my life. My family has been part of UPS before there was even Blue Label and Red Label Air shipped on airlines. My family has been part of UPS before there was delivery to all 50 states.

I have no issues with you. So why can I ask are you trying to get me banned?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyathink (Post 837389)

You are in no danger at all of being silenced, unlike some members this forum is proud to encourage a wide variety of views, perspectives and experience here.
Any efforts to stop reasonable civil discussion will be seen as harmful to that outlook.
The members should understand that their views will be considered along with every other view. Don't be a coward and try to suppress whatever you disagree with or don't want to hear.