Freightpuppy

That's exactly what the company wants....passing by 51%. Anything more and they gave too much. You are never going to please the entire piloy group with a contract. Someone is always going to feel like they got the shaft.

Airbum

current pay, when inflation based, is almost the same as it was back in 1998 for him. I don't recall pilots stating ups payscales as ridiculous back then. Oh and that was flying 727-100s. Now we fly 747-400 for the same money. The IPA captain makes no more money then he did 12 years ago but flies much larger aircraft on average.

Night_Hawk

Well, if you compare the signing bonus for Capts: 60k vs. the raise: about 30 an hr. Then they received retro for about 2000 hrs or we can call it 2 years.

I believe the contract was amendable in 2002, so I would say they needed/ deserved 120k to cover the 4 years.

N_H

757upspilot

Our prior contracts passed by a much larger margin, high 70 to 80 percent . The signing bonus was and is a bribe to fog the vision of the membership while reading a contract proposal. The company bought this contract with the signing bonus.

L'il J.Seinfeld

I've flown the 727 at UPS. I've flown the 747 at UPS. The 727 was much harder to fly due to the routes than the 747 was. 250k for doing what we do is great money. Do you think we need a pay raise?

I'm happy with the contract. If UPS respected it I would have very few complaints other than the furlough, pilots being stranded in China etc.

Pick your battles is all I'm saying. Make the SOB's respect the current contract don't claim we are underpaid.

Shaggy1970

With this kind of attitude we be lucky to get a .10 cent raise on the next go around.

We get paid well??? Back in 1980 we made the same as a Orthopedic Surgeon that same surgeon makes 500+ a year now, what do we make now? Your assumptions is based only on the fact that the rest of the other airlines have fallen so much, frankly your attitude has a lot to do with the continuous race to the bottom.

L'il J.Seinfeld

We'll be lucky to keep what we have. I fear we'll be giving up QOL issues to maintain pay. The reason being is that we make so much more than any other pilot group. Thankfully FDX goes first and will be the baseline. Still can't believe that during the last negotiations what UPS had agreed to was more than what ALPA requested for FDX. When the NMB informed the IPA and UPS negotiators of this UPS pulled the offer.

OTOH we do need to max out pay while we can. We've only got 15-20 years left flying manned cargo planes!

Shaggy1970

Lil,
I hear what your saying I really do but I for one am glad that your not on the negotiating committee. Who is to say what I am entitled to earn? UPS made more profit last year (peak of the recession) than all Legacy Carriers combined for the past ten years. Our starting point should be higher in every way, to include pay, benefits, Quality of life, retirement ........ Maybe we can bring the industry up with us in the process. When UPS starts to lose money I will reconsider my position, until then the sky is the limit! If I were you I stick to what you know and leave negotiating to people like me!

Archie Bunker

The 727 was harder to fly because of the routes? Huh??

On average, how many time zones did you cross on the 727 per leg? How many crossings did you do in a bid period? How many 12 hour legs did you log on the 727?

While you may have flown more legs in the 727, life on the -400 isn't as cushy as you think. The constant time zone changes take their toll on your body, and when I return from a two week trip around the world, I'm pretty much exhausted. When I flew the 757 out of ONT, I was never even close to being as tired as I am after a typical -400 trip...I don't care how many legs I flew.

Here's a newsflash Jerry...the company will NEVER respect our contract, and they will NEVER respect us. We are a union...we are the enemy. The sooner you accept that fact, the sooner you can assume the proper mindset for our upcoming contract negotiations. This is my third airline, and third union...and I have never seen a more adversarial relationship between management and the union as here. My other airline management/union relations didn't even come close to the hatred I've witnessed here.

Our next battle is right around the corner...starting in January. You sound like you'd be happy making the same wage for the next 5 or 6 years. Sorry pal, not me. Not when our company is making more profit than Ft. Knox has gold. I want a raise...and a big one. Look at what Shaggy said about pilot wages in 1980 compared to now. Has there been a real net gain in pilot wages over the years, or have we even kept up with inflation? This company would pay us $10/hour, and make us take our own bag lunch if they could get away with it. We need to go into these negotiations with a hardcore attitude, not "we're lucky to be making what we are."

Nothing personal Li'l Jer, but I guess we just see things in a different light. After multiple airlines and contract negotiations, I'm ready for anything UPS dishes out. Bring it. Bottom line, we're not paid what we're worth, we're paid what we negotiate.

highsky

Umm yeah.

Hello???

I can't believe I'm listening to an IPA pilot say the things you're saying. We should be making at least TWICE the money we are, when compared to pilots four decades back, adjusted for inflation.

The average age of my new hire class was 38. That's 16 years after college just to knock on the damn door. Name one other profession that requires that much experience.

We are worth it. YOU are worth it. Man up; you're not some 24 year old punk.

I will strike over a contract that doesn't have at least a 30% raise IN ADDITION TO improvements in QOL and massive improvements in scope.

PLEASE stay away from the negotiating committees and let the grown-ups do the talking.

Quit being such a stooge for the management.