I respectfully disagree. I think the QOL and QOJ(ob) at FEDEX is far superior to UPS, based on anecdotal evidence. I agree that a very few older guys who happen to be junior at UPS may do a cost/benefit analysis and determine they won't hit break even before retiring. But someone in their late 30s would almost certainly be better off at FEDEX over 26 years. Porn queens are willing to get screwed for money, but there limits to how much abuse money compensates for.

And I can't wait to see the next contract -- I'm predicting SERIOUS concessions on the IPA's part, especially trading quality of life issues for quick $$$. There is a new group of junior bitter pilots, to be sure. But UPS is MASTER at segmenting a union to maximize economic benefit to them. Throwing a few extra bucks at the senior guys never in danger of furlough to get a "yes" vote will be used to success, in my opinion. My first IOE CA in 07 spent our introductary meeting telling me how guys like me (making $33K at the time) screwed him in the last contract because of the FO raise, blah blah. I had no idea what he was talking about -- that was a year before I got hired -- but at least he wasn't asking me bold face. It won't be difficult for UPS to throw a few $$$ at them to vote yes on issues that will utterly kill the quality of this job long-term. "Pref bidding...sure, I'm senior enough that it works for me and hey, I'll be out in 4 years anyway."

Three years from now, if you compare FEDEX and UPS pilot contracts side by side, I'll wager FEDEX comes out ahead on every metric (pay, retirement, work rules, etc.)

When I was working I remember JB, the training center manager at the time saying "just throw money at them, they will sign". He might have been right

I have to disagree. The FedEx guys themselves talk openly about how fractionalized their union has become. One of their own union higher-ups talked about how they shouldn't bid the 777 because they hadn't negotiated a payrate for it then went and bid it himself. Talk about leadership. Could you imagine our president doing something like that?

We have probably the best union in the industry right now. Yes UPS is good at negotiating, but we aren't just going to lay down for them either.

"Three years from now, if you compare FEDEX and UPS pilot contracts side by side, I'll wager FEDEX comes out ahead on every metric (pay, retirement, work rules, etc.)"

I believe we have them beat already with pay, so they would have to come up quite a bit, plus they still have narrowbody pay scales. Plus they will be going first so we will be able to respond. Should be interesting nonetheless.

If they accept the two year TA they have right now we will once again be first in line

If things don't go in the crapper over there over the next 30 years. You never know....just sayin' What looks great now might not be so great in 10 years.

Buck 92...

IPA has come a long way towards the good things in purple's contract. If the fedex pilots foolishly approve their TA, it will put them further behind our contract regarding pay. According to fedex reps on the nprm, the new rules will benefit the IPA more than fedex pilots. The only contract piece where purple is far ahead of brown is the A plan. IPA needs to improve the A plan and get close to purple in this respect.

I think the FQS problem will be front and center for the next negotiations. I don't think status quo will be acceptable for a majority of voters this time around.

JMO

Pilot7576

So...if you accept as fact the next contract we get will maintain the same payscale (adjusted for inflation), I'd agree we have FEDEX "beat." I actually wouldn't bet on that. We've already seen what UPS does when they ask pilots to "freeze pay rates at 2008 levels" and we refuse: furlough. I would be astounded if they don't keep people on the street through negotiations to use as leverage. I also agree with FP -- FX could, theoretically, turn bad over 30 years. But in the end, FX is an airline and values pilots; UPS is not and tolerates pilots, barely. If FX goes in the cr@pper, UPS will follow. I can't IMAGINE UPS taking the stand "hey, look how bad FX is treating their pilots now. We'll set the good example and embrace ours with more generous pay/benefits/work rules." Puhleeze.

And I will literally eat my brown hat (minus hardware) if, in three years from now, FQS aren't still with us doing the same thing they're doing now. UPS WILL shut the operation down to keep control, and to them, FQS represent control. We won't be released to strike (even with a "labor friendly" administration) and UPS knows it. Hiring more FQS with union pilots on the street is most DEFINITELY being done to send a message.

I'm just hopin they recall everyone before we start hiring so everyone's got work!

Section Eight,
You have some good, valid observations, but you also need to review the timeline on the FQS issue as it is flawed IMO.

Under Miller
Fact: We were well enough short of agreed upon VJPP MOU financial targets that EB (Miller) originally agreed we would meet. We didn’t. UPS already wanted to dismiss future sign up periods as requested by IPA and commence furloughs according to the original MOU.

Fact: Running 30 million short, with only one more opportunity to make up shortfall in Nov-Dec 2009, Miller states he will not run.

Fact: Sept 7 2009 (IPA Flt Times)
“This is Bob Miller with a Special IPA President’s Message for Tuesday, September 1st. As you know, today kicks off the fall IPA election cycle with nominations opening for two officer positions including that of president. I want to take this opportunity to let the membership know that I will not be
a candidate for any Association office this year.
…I am very focused on the fact that four months remains in the
tenure of the current Executive Board. I believe we have time to focus on several priorities with the time remaining. Here’s where I believe our priorities
should be as an organization:

1) Renew the MOU/Prevent a Furlough—Even though the economy and UPS have started to turn the corner for the better, I do not believe the pilot group is yet out of harm’s way. Even though the Company is doing better, customers are not yet flocking back to paying for premium air delivery.
Our block hours remain down, and I believe we will need to continue to engage the Company in the MOU process if we are to defeat the possibility of a furlough early next year. Even though I’ve heard some “cafeteria talk” about some pilots having MOU “buyer’s remorse,” I think we need to stay grounded in reality. The reality is that we are the only pilot group that took the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression and defeated a furlough.

Fact: IPA was falling over 15 million short on second sign up period, so he convinces UPS to extend the sign up period till end of his tenure. We fall over 10 million short at end of sign up period.
VJPP Timeline
Signup Deadline – Dec. 31st, 5
p.m.
UPS to announce their assessment of Total Savings Achieved – Jan. 8th, 2010 Earliest Furlough Notice by Miller signed MOU – January12, 2010

Fact: Miller stated after he decide not to run: (IPA Flt Times pg.1 on 12/21/2009)
My personal opinion is well known. I am a strong advocate of exchanging voluntary, incentivized time
off for furlough protection. I strongly believe this is the best path to protect all of our members, and the best path to ensure that we have the strongest possible position going into contract negotiations. I base this belief on over 35 years of union experience in the airline industry.
We can debate forever whether or not UPS is bluffing or whether they even need to furlough. Regardless,
I think it’s helpful to look at this through UPS’s eyes. Yes, I’ve heard the rhetoric that the VJPP will
somehow make us look “weak.” Here’s my view—whenever our group sets aside our self interest and
moves in unison—this sends a powerful message of strength.

Jan 2010 Fact: The Company opened discussions by stating the reasons they feel the MOU and other options presented by the Thrush EB were not acceptable alternatives to a crewmember furlough.
UPS announces that IPA falls short of agreed upon financial goals completely under Miller. UPS decides to furlough, but reverts to original discussion held with Miller. If new EB provides contract concessions, UPS will consider not furloughing. Miller, and now Thrush, supported by strong sentiment in membership to NOT make contract concessions, says no contract concessions.

UPS demands a near double of IPA financial cuts since will not make concessions. IPA cannot even make first financial goals agreed upon by Miller and EB.

Feb 8, 2010 Fact: UPS announces Furloughs. Thrush responds: At this point, the lines of communication
are still open between the EB and the Company and we will continue to talk and explore alternatives to the announced furlough. The Company has communicated that they still intend to proceed with Realignment Bid 10-101 and follow on Displacement Bid 10-201. In addition, a RIF (Reduction in Force) Bid 10-202 was posted.

March 5, 2010 Fact: With UPS furloughing, Executive Board took the first step toward eliminating the airline within an airline at UPS. Signature cards were mailed to all Flight Qualified Supervisors (FQS). The cards serve as notification to the National Mediation Board (NMB) of the signatories’ authorization for IPA representation.

Opinions:
1. Miller knew UPS was going to furlough after parking the DC-8’s. He got UPS to agree to VJPP. Unfortunately, IPA failed to produce agreed upon financial goals after two sign up periods.

2. Miller decides not to run, so can’t say “if he was still President, UPS would not have furloughed. UPS would have furloughed regardless of who was IPA President.

3. Thrush had zero effect on UPS result. IPA failed to generate the numbers. UPS wants original concessions proposed to Miller, and now Thrush. Both say “No”

4. UPS furloughs. This is not a Thrush kicking them, the FQS announcement was a month AFTER the furlough was announced by UPS, so fail to see your connection. Miller would have had to respond similiarly to the 'airline within an airline" Am convinced Miller would have had same approach!

5. Was huge supporter of VJPP, brilliant of Miller and EB, sadly, UPS chose to toss out the guaranteed savings and all follow on savings. Again, UPS furlough actions left IPA, regardless of who was President, to resolve the “ airline within an airline issue”.

6. Can disagree with FQS issue, but UPS still willing to hire more FQS while you are furloughed. Very little in our contract effectively prevents UPS from not recalling and continuing FQS hiring. How do you propose IPA deal with this conundrum?

7. IF I were furloughed, hired by Purple, would stay at Purple. Why?
Probably a healthier career since UPS so bungled your career, and the bad taste and potential stroke would always remain....

8. Again, you have some accurate observation and agree with some of your conclusions, Like you speaking out, you should, but believe understanding the timeline is critical to undertanding UPS actions and improving our strategy in response.

9. UPS isn’t interested in ‘’getting Thrush”, they are interested in saving money in short term, it’s business, and Davis was a CFO, acts like one and does not act like a long term CEO that benefits UPS.

Of the 109 furloughed, one has passed away (RIP) ...

Two others have apparently found better jobs and resigned their position. So there are jobs to be had, at least from the actual perspective from someone at the VERY bottom and ON THE STREET.

It helps to have their perspective to understand how bad it could be to come back to UPS, the view from the bottom is a whole lot different.