Does FedEx use Preference Bidding?
02-25-2011, 07:32 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by Magenta Line
No, I've never used a PBS system before but I have acquaintances that use it or have used it. I am no longer in contact with either of those guys. My comparison above to a PBS type system was not a good one. My point was that, after the conflict resolution/drop/add window, those trips are removed from open time and awarded and you know as a conflict guy within a few days what your next month schedule looks like. If you're a VTO line holder, you no longer have those trips to choose from and can no longer waste a secondary line choice on a trip(s) that's already been awarded.
All I'm saying is that in 2011, there should be some way/method/technology where the #1 VTO line holder can go in to open time and pick his trip(s) for the upcoming month and as long as they are legal and don't exceed some BLG constraints, that trip(s) belongs to him AND (this is my BIG point) those trips are removed from the 'bucket' of trips that the other VTO holders have to choose from. Then the #2 guy goes in, picks his trips, etc, etc.... It's a close approximation to real-time trip trading.
I've got no idea how this would/could work and it would be the ONLY way I would consider a PBS type system specifically for VTO lines.
All I'm saying is that in 2011, there should be some way/method/technology where the #1 VTO line holder can go in to open time and pick his trip(s) for the upcoming month and as long as they are legal and don't exceed some BLG constraints, that trip(s) belongs to him AND (this is my BIG point) those trips are removed from the 'bucket' of trips that the other VTO holders have to choose from. Then the #2 guy goes in, picks his trips, etc, etc.... It's a close approximation to real-time trip trading.
I've got no idea how this would/could work and it would be the ONLY way I would consider a PBS type system specifically for VTO lines.
I don't think your second point on the "rolling" VTO bid is realistic. It sounds great, but I can't see how it would really happen. Plus, if we could do it w/ VTOs, why wouldn't the regular lineholders get it too. Have #1 bid and get awarded his line, then #2 and so on.
The big problem I see would be staying on the timeline. If no one can get their bid processed until the guy before him bids, that's going to be a pretty big bottleneck. What if #1 is over the north Pacific when VTO bidding opens? Everyone else has got to wait until he gets to a computer in Hong Kong?
Conflict bidding and VTOs need to be separate - for sure. Beyond that, I wouldn't be too hopeful, IMO.
One last point, I think we sort or already have a PBS system for VTOs. You put in your scheduling requests (days off, trips, trip types, etc.) and you get a line in seniority order based (loosely in many cases) on those inputs. That's basically what PBS is. I don't think we want the PBS camel's nose under our tent in any way, shape or form.
02-25-2011, 07:34 AM
#12
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
Originally Posted by Magenta Line
All I'm saying is that in 2011, there should be some way/method/technology where the #1 VTO line holder can go in to open time and pick his trip(s) for the upcoming month and as long as they are legal and don't exceed some BLG constraints, that trip(s) belongs to him AND (this is my BIG point) those trips are removed from the 'bucket' of trips that the other VTO holders have to choose from. Then the #2 guy goes in, picks his trips, etc, etc.... It's a close approximation to real-time trip trading.
I've got no idea how this would/could work and it would be the ONLY way I would consider a PBS type system specifically for VTO lines.
I've got no idea how this would/could work and it would be the ONLY way I would consider a PBS type system specifically for VTO lines.
... sounds like the VTO bids at FedEx are as primitive (for lack of a better term) as they are here at UPS.I had PBS prior to UPS. It was just OK ...
02-25-2011, 09:51 AM
#14
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Brown ones
Posts: 216
Originally Posted by CactusCrew
Gotcha now ... sounds like the VTO bids at FedEx are as primitive (for lack of a better term) as they are here at UPS.
I had PBS prior to UPS. It was just OK ...
... sounds like the VTO bids at FedEx are as primitive (for lack of a better term) as they are here at UPS.I had PBS prior to UPS. It was just OK ...
I'm sure you were fairly senior to me at Cactus, so our experiences with PBS are different. As junior as I was, it was a nightmare. NO vacation or training conflicts. It's an absolute NO vote at best and a strike issue at worst.
UPSS would make our Q of L worse...if that's possible.
02-25-2011, 11:18 AM
#15
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Originally Posted by BrownClown
CC,
I'm sure you were fairly senior to me at Cactus, so our experiences with PBS are different. As junior as I was, it was a nightmare. NO vacation or training conflicts. It's an absolute NO vote at best and a strike issue at worst.
UPSS would make our Q of L worse...if that's possible.
I'm sure you were fairly senior to me at Cactus, so our experiences with PBS are different. As junior as I was, it was a nightmare. NO vacation or training conflicts. It's an absolute NO vote at best and a strike issue at worst.
UPSS would make our Q of L worse...if that's possible.
Mid-level FO, early 2000 hire date (P261x). Was that senior ?
I describe PBS as merely OK ... because the PBS experience does vary with position on the seniority list. Like everything else ! It was implemented shortly after I arrived at AWA, fwiw. I remember it was a LONG development process though.
On the other hand, I have yet to enjoy ANY conflict bidding success at Brown, so it is a wash for my sector of the seniority list. Heading into 4th year and only able to hold reserve in ANC to put things into perspective. Conflict bidding means crap to the bottom of our list. I know it will some day ...
That being said, I wouldn't want PBS, just because UPS would want it !
02-25-2011, 12:01 PM
#16
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: Brown ones
Posts: 216
Originally Posted by CactusCrew
Mid-level FO, early 2000 hire date (P261x). Was that senior ?
I was early 2004 hire, so you were livin' large! I would have been furloughed fall of '08.
That being said, I wouldn't want PBS, just because UPS would want it !
I was early 2004 hire, so you were livin' large! I would have been furloughed fall of '08.
That being said, I wouldn't want PBS, just because UPS would want it !
02-25-2011, 02:22 PM
#17
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Retired, again...
Posts: 608
Do NOT allow PBS anywhere on your property. If you allow it for VTO constuction, the camel's nose is under the tent, and you know what comes next.
PBS will greatly reduce pilots required, eliminate line and crew purity, reduce vacation, etc, etc........I believe DAL has a good PBS system, but it's a tremendous giveback compared to the current FDX system. Ever wonder why the company wants it so badly ?
PBS will greatly reduce pilots required, eliminate line and crew purity, reduce vacation, etc, etc........I believe DAL has a good PBS system, but it's a tremendous giveback compared to the current FDX system. Ever wonder why the company wants it so badly ?
02-25-2011, 03:37 PM
#18
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Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 798
Originally Posted by jimp
and if so how is it? In my previous airline we used strictly paper, and the lines where (for the most part) seven on, seven off. Reserve was mostly 8 on 6 off. With pbs can you enter in parameters that would frag your schedule, or are their contractual protections on what it can build for you? How about days off, if it builds you a schedule below guarantee, does it/can it stick work days in on your days off?
i am interested in you experience with the system, as i have never used pbs. It seems on some airlines it works great, on others it is a nightmare.
thanks
i am interested in you experience with the system, as i have never used pbs. It seems on some airlines it works great, on others it is a nightmare.
thanks
blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!!
02-25-2011, 03:41 PM
#19
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Joined APC: Sep 2010
Position: FDX
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by FedElta
Do NOT allow PBS anywhere on your property. If you allow it for VTO constuction, the camel's nose is under the tent, and you know what comes next.
02-25-2011, 05:18 PM
#20
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Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Retired, again...
Posts: 608
Originally Posted by AccurateInfo
The current VTO lines are built by Future Schedules using a PBS system from ADOPT, the same company that also makes the pairing generator we know as the "Optimizer". Your VTO input is simply rendered as an e-mail to the Futures scheduler, who interprets your wishes and enters them into the PBS system. Then the entire batch for a given seat is run at once and the results put back into the system, which you then see on VIPS. In your terms, the camel's nose has been under the tent for 10 years now.
BG
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