Letter from IPA President to all UPS FQS
 

I have permission from the President of the IPA to post this letter on this Forum. This letter will be send to all FQS at UPS tomorrow.




Fellow UPS Pilots,

This is the most important letter we have written to date. Every one of you needs to look at the information in this letter and read it carefully. After doing so please take the time to digest this information and exactly what it means. The talking points here totally drive home what the IPA has been saying to you for months – only this time it is UPS who is saying it.

The information contained here are excerpts from the 130 page commentary submitted by UPS to the FAA concerning the proposed NPRM. Everything about it and every comment noted here lets you know exactly where you stand with UPS and what they intend to do with you if the NPRM is enacted. Pay close attention to each comment – they are clearly stating they don’t trust you to be honest with them in managing your schedule. Pay “SPECIAL ATTENTION” to the final comment made by UPS - highlighted in bold and underlined - as it relates to your position as an FQS. They are stating clearly that if this NPRM is enacted with the present duty language that you will no longer be a FLIGHT Qualified Supervisor – they are telling the FAA – and you – that they will have to put every one of you in a NON-FLYING position. You need to think about that statement long and hard. What does that that mean for you and your family? Ask your peers who were previously Flight Qualified and then moved to a non-flying position - one issue being the very large pay cut you will be forced to take when you are no longer viable as an FQS. The bigger issue you should be concerned with is; “will UPS have a reason to keep you as an employee” when your value to them is no longer 70% (or more) greater than the amount they are paying you? I believe you all know the answer to that question – and it is an emphatic “NO.”

Those of you who have expressed concerns about possibly having to move from Captain status to First Officer status as an IPA member after the fence protection period expires would do well to consider whether you will even have a job 12 months from now if you do not join IPA now. This is no threat – UPS’ comments speak for themselves. If you want to ensure your job security and your seniority by DOH here at UPS you need to get your card in ASAP! The clock is ticking and you are rolling the dice on your future and that of your family if you do not send in a card authorizing IPA representation. The UPS comments with the page number where each comment can be found are copied below:

These are actual quotes from Docket No. FAA-2009-1093, COMMENTS OF UNITED PARCEL SERVICE CO., in reply to Notice of Proposed Rulemaking FAA Notice 10-11.

UPS suggests that the FAA remove administrative duties from the definition of duty or exempt administrative duties from influencing acclimation. (P.74)

Unfortunately, the certificate holder would also be completely helpless in preventing some manipulation of this “administrative duty” provision by a flight crew member who wishes to adjust the duty period so as to make himself/herself illegal for the next subsequent duty period. (P.13)

UPS also objects to the definition of “other administrative duties” since it can greatly impact the future of certificate holders utilizing line-qualified and current management pilots. UPS believes maintaining flight-qualified management personnel is a fundamentally important aspect of our excellent safety record, and we strongly believe that including “other administrative duties” in the accumulative duty limits will have a profound negative affect on the future of flight safety. In general, the variable nature of “other administrative duties,” whether it be for management or line pilots, will be nearly impossible to manage. It is conceivable that, as presently defined, flight crewmembers will have the ability to make themselves illegal for a future FDP. These activities may be completely invisible to the certificate holder until just prior to the start of an FDP. This presents significant operational impediments and could negatively affect schedule reliability and service quality. (P.88)

• Is there any among you who can explain how having more restrictive cumulative duty limits will have a profound “negative” impact on the future of flight safety? This very rule would prevent UPS from being able to work you in the office all day and then deadhead you to Miami early morning to have you operate a round trip to Central or South America - and a continuous 20-30 hours on the clock without a legal FAR rest. This exact scenario occurred to FQS pilots more than once over the past three weeks.

Cumulative duty limits are particularly onerous since short call reserve is considered duty as are “administrative duties.” This one aspect of cumulative duty will make this regulation unwieldy to manage since it significantly increases the concept of duty over present regulations. (P.125)

In addition, given the ever present possibility of voluntarily assumed “administrative duties,” nothing precludes a pilot from reporting such activities, so that he or she becomes unavailable for an additional reserve assignment—in this scenario, having done little more than sit at home waiting for the phone to ring. (P.14-15)

UPS recommends that the FAA specifically address the issue of management pilot duty as follows: “Management pilot duty includes all time spent during company business-related meetings and other business-related activity conducted on company property. Communications of any form during periods that a management pilot would ordinarily be considered off duty does not constitute duty for purposes of this regulation.” (P.75)

Another example of how the proposal may diminish safety margins is its recategorization of administrative activities of management pilots as “duty”, thereby reducing the total time they are available to fly and thus making it more difficult for them to maintain their flight proficiency. (exhibit 1, P.21)

With respect to considering all “administrative” work performed by a management pilot as duty, UPS believes that the unintended consequence is that all management pilot positions will become non-flying positions. (P.75)

The URL link to the full document is also copied here for you: http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketDetail;dct=PS;rpp=10;po=0;s=FAA-2009-1093-1898.1;D=FAA-2009-1093

The above comments speak for themselves. Time is running short and you have a choice to make – one that will affect you and your family for the rest of your lives. IPA is offering you a future with written guarantees, job protection and the confidence that we will fight for you, your job and your future when you are one of us.

Can you afford to put all your eggs in one basket and count on UPS? The call is yours. Everyone who has not yet sent in a card needs to look at this long and hard and you need to speak with your family and make the decision that makes the most sense for all of you. Once you do that the choice will be clear and it will be an easy decision. Please use the card and envelope we sent you previously or download a copy of the card off of the IPA public website.

We look forward to welcoming you into the IPA, placing you on our seniority list by DOH and moving forward together with a bigger and better IPA. If you have any questions or you need a card or return mail envelope you may contact me directly at: 502-410-8700 or email to: [email protected]

Sincerely,




Robert M. Thrush
President
Independent Pilots Association

Gonna be a fun couple of weeks around here!!!!:)

I've been following these threads for a couple days and have to say that this appears a completely illogical argument on IPA's part, almost like a last minute ditch effort to scare the last few? I have no dog in this fight, just a furloughed UAL dude with too much time on my hands.

1) So if IPA doesn't get enough cards, and the NPRM passes as is, then according to this letter a FQS will be non-flying and no longer a threat to IPA? Right? No more special mgmt reserves, ie recalls commence? Isn't this a win for IPA?

2) If IPA does get enough cards, and NPRM passes as is, a FQS can still become a non-flying position? So again, where is the extra gain for IPA if the NPRM is a done deal.

3) I understand the furlough/seniority issue, but how does this convince a FQS to turn in their card when the IPA has no more power to stop the NPRM than apparently UPS management has?

4) Finally, if this was all kept a secret from FQS types, then exactly which department crafted UPS's reply to the NPRM? The janitors? Why would they want to hire more FQSs if the below is true. AA also responded and said they would need 2200+ more pilots. Can we believe any of these comments verbatim or are they being used for political purposes.

Again, sorry for interruption. I'll go back to eating my popcorn or dealing with our own screwed up saga over at the new UniCal.

Thanks-

KC

Excellent post, you have made some very good points here and showed some original thinking. Apparently, we try to discourage that, it doesn't fit well with the desired narrative.

Totally agree - why break our @ss for these guys?! Better for many of us if they don't sign their cards and have to get rehired at the BOTTOM of the seniority list. It's one thing to not rescind the offer (which more than a few would support) but why keep encouraging them? Doesn't seem to buy us anything - except MAYBE the only group of people more bitter than the furloughees (FQS downgraded to line FOs).

I think part of the reason is that this is a process that started back in 2009, well before the details of the NPRM came out. Right now, it seem to be a gamble by both sides. UPS will fight the NPRM with every ounce of energy they can muster! If for some reason it fails or gets changed in UPS's favor, the process, which we are more than a year into, continues. The IPA wants ALL flying done by IPA members. If they get it done by merging the FQS into the list, or by UPS being forced to make all FQS a no flying position, they don't really care. I personally hope they come up short, because in the end, I feel the FQS job is not going to be around for much longer one way or the other.

Kc135
 

kc135,
The bottom line is the NPRM is not a "done deal". There is no way to know what it will look like when and if it comes to pass. The IPA intends to end the FQS issue one way or another. The card drive is a way to terminate this problem definitively while keeping all other options open.

kc135driver,
Briefly:

1) Yes.

2) Obviously, UPS will need some pilots in administrative and manager positions. They just won't need so many if office duties block availability for emergency flying. We still want these positions under our umbrella. No more "yes men" afraid of reprisals. More better operational decisions, maybe? They can flow into the office, they can flow back out onto the line with union protection.

3) This letter isn't the IPA trying to scare our FQSs. They're trying to educate them about how UPS views them. I've watched a few FQSs get very frustrated when Bob Leikites wouldn't listen to presentations, walk out in the middle of a presentation, etc. Necessary changes would not get enacted upon.

What's scary is UPS's view of FQSs in their response: if an FQS can't work all day in an office and fly all night, UPS doesn't want them. I've had trips with FQSs that during layovers, had to interrupt their rest to participate in conference calls on their cellphones. Which in turn, interrupt my rest (sleep) because I can hear them through the hotel walls. This sheepdip has got to end. It will end.

4) These responses to the NPRM come from UPS labor, or Tony Coleman of Frost, Brown and Todd. Take your pick. No FQSs are ever involved with a real decision of importance, ever. Even Rick Barr looks, well, not as chipper as he used to.

I don't know how this will shake out, but the Buffallo crash will change things. Not even Big Brown will get their way and keep their current deal with management emergency flying.

As far as accretion goes, I think the IPA will prevail in one way or another and finally end our "airline within an airline".

I believe the IPA EB believes the NPRM will be mired in a legal mess for quite a few years to come. I suspect the airlines will sue the federal gov't over the "financially burdensome" nature of the NPRM. Never underestimate the power of money.

Until the next crash anyway. I love how UPS cries about how much this will cripple them, They have so much money they dont know what to fo with it except hire new scumbags to do my flying. As if the buffalo crash wasn't a big enough wake up call....

I thought you couldn't sue the gov't. :confused::confused::confused:

Actually people sue local, state and Federal government every day of the week. And if their case has merit they are awarded damages.

Right now the majority of States are suing the Federal government over a particular law that was recently passed.

In the past UPS has had to go to court against both the Federal government and numerous states just to do business in the good old USA.

And I hope they win. Being able to buy insurance on my cell phone in the ambulance on the way to the hospital with a guaranteed policy at the same price as people (of the same age) not currently in an ambulance will be a BIG savings on my healthcare costs. No use carrying insurance until you need it. It'll be interesting to see how that business model works out for them -- profitwise.

There have been some questions about the commitment of the FQS.
Their hesitation is understandable.
For years they have been told that the IPA is the enemy and now all of a sudden the IPA is the solution.

There are two choices:

-joining the IPA means offering them stability, a number on the seniority list and a guaranteed job until retirement, but it might come with a (temporary) pay cut.

-Remaining a FQS with UPS on the other hand is a shaky roll of the dice at best.
No guarantees. There will be a lot of uncertainness about job security, based on the proposed NPRM rules. What the IPA has uncovered in the comments by UPS in reply to the NPRM is pretty clear.

If UPS does not exactly get what they want from the FAA, they will eliminate the FQS positions:

With respect to considering all “administrative” work performed by a management pilot as duty, UPS believes that the unintended consequence is that all management pilot positions will become non-flying positions. (P.75)


I assume that the Company’s intention to eliminate the FQS jobs has been made abundantly clear to all FQS by management.
Therefore the content and consequences of Docket No. FAA-2009-1093 should not be news to them.

Then the question becomes whether UPS will retain administrative employees at airline pilot salaries?


Time for some soul searching.

BCM

I hate to be the one to break the news, but you have created a myth based on some very large assumptions, which may or may not prove to be true.

I understand that it fits the narrative of the IPA as a slayer of dragons and destroyer of worlds, but you have overlooked a great many other possibilities in the pending outcome.

Oh really? Do tell! You are obviously a genius and know-it-all.

Let's wait and see what happens Friday before you proclaim your knowledge.:D

I'm not proclaiming anything genius.

I just always get such a kick out of you - Mr. Union-hating Unionist. I also enjoy how you sit high up on your perceived perch and play critic while never offering any suggestions. You're the ultimate critic, yet one who never actually gets in the game.

Keep posting though, cause your comedy value is priceless.

One of the myths is guarateed job untill retirement. Right now me, and 105 others would challenge you on that one Bob!!!!

You have to have permission to sue the government. You actually have to receive permission before commencing legal action.

Just pointing out a few facts some seem to have overlooked, no need to get it in a wad. We are all in the game, some just have different ideas on the worth of the outcome in this particular case.:D

No, you're a critic. That's it. You're all hat, no cattle.

I also enjoy how you talk in riddles, which to me means you clearly have nothing to say.

I wish JS would put a leash on you or remove you from here because you weaken the IPA.

Attack all you like, but the effort to muzzle all dissent is the first sign of a losing position.

All hat, no cattle!

I'll be glad to listen when you have something more to offer other than just telling us we're wrong while you sit back and judge.

Until then you're just another Rooshbag to me.

Jungle just likes to antagonize and hide behind his stage name.

From down here in my retirement haven, I am hearing the IPA is very close to getting the magic number.

Wow, gee, newsflash! Thanks.

Most of us actually in the IPA know the exact number.

Also, I don't actually believe that you're a retired manager so pardon my wisecracking at your expense. You gave yourself away a couple weeks ago by a badly misplaced post.

You think I am still working?

I don't think, no make that, I know that you don't know anymore about this situation than I do.

Actually, I do some work!!

That is probably true, but who knows. "Jungle" is a neat person. Very intuitive

I know that you have two screen names (at least) on here.

That is not true. Only one. I promise.

Oh you promise, okay then. :p

Tell me the other

Rough week at the office? It looks like the big Brown anti labor apparatus is in full swing. You guys have become comfortably predictable though. It’s the same tired anti union rhetoric over and over, just great stuff!

I am pretty sure that our benevolent employer will just take great care of the employees who soon might be without a clear job description.

UPS believes that the unintended consequence is that all management pilot positions will become non-flying positions.

Then again, maybe not. Wanna gamble that precious job away?


Well, I know you guys have your hands full this week fighting labor and massaging the truth, so I will let you get back to work your magic.


Hugs,

BCM

Yea!!!!!!!!!!

My, this is a dramatic turn of events, should we now believe everything UPS says or just those messages you approve.

Have a nice day.:D

All hat no cattle.

More condescending junk from jungle with absolutely no substance. Just a critic on his perch in the cheap seats.

Sometimes the cheap seats are the best because you can see the proverbial "forest through the trees"