dckozak

I wasn't on the AC when EWR happened, but I understand that the LSAS (MD-11 speak for stability augmentation ) was "tweaked" to improve handling in the flare. Of the two types we fly (incl MD-10) must would agree the MD-10 is the hardest to land smoothly (the -10 of the fleet being harder than the -30). MD-10-10 is by far the biggest slug in the fleet, I think a C-150 with a pair of Sumo wrestlers would out climb the -10 from surface to 1000 ft.
To answer the original question, I think its lands quite nicely

RedeyeAV8r

That is a matter of opinion.......................and depends on what you flew first........the MD-11 or DC-10.. I won't argue that these beasts land differently.....You must activily flare and hold the flare in an MD-10.

But Both can be landed smoothly pretty consistently...............

It is when folks fly one model for a month or so then swap to the other model.

As Far as Hand flying goes, the MD-10-10 (Formerly Dc-10-10) is sweet.
She is old and underpowered as compared to the -30 and MD-11, but a dream to hand fly.

The MD-11 is has = to 1 engine of thrust over the MD-10-10.

KoruPilot

Cool. Thanks for the replies gentlemen.

I must comment that FedEx pilots are consistantly rational and professional with their posts on related threads. I'll likely get a comment on that one but I figure give credit where credit is due, and no I don't fly for FedEx.

Keep it up.

MaxKts

Have to agree with Redeye. I depends on what you flew first or fly the most. Spent a few years in the DC-10 before coming to the Maddog. You can finesse the landing in the MD-10. The -11 you can get a great landing but it is more luck the anything else - a little back pressure at 30 feet and ease it off at 10 feet and accept what happens. I'm going through upgrade training right now and the schoolhouse is finally admitting there is a difference between the two A/C. First time I went through they were telling everyone they fly the same and land the same. Anyone with experience in the DC-10 knew different. Hand flying in the -10 is like driving an underpowered sports car. The -11 is like driving a powerful truck - the controls feel real heavy.
Let's hope this crew did everything right and something they had no control of was the cause of the incident.

KoruPilot

Let's hope indeed. With the 767 it's up a bit to technique as there are a couple ways to put it on in reasonable manner, but with the forward facing tilt a super smooth one is difficult, unlike the 777 where my cat would get a greaser every time. We had DC-10's ages ago, but I don't fly with any of the lads who were on it as they're all on 'Daddys Yact' (744 for the uneducated).

Thanks again for the info. I'd love to fly the -10 soemday, but I recon those day's are numbered. Enjoy it.

Huck

Outstanding. That little summary is worth more than a differences sim.

Ranger

It was actually a software adjustment. One of the loads (I don't remember which one it was) was programmed to make a pitch down (trim) adjustment to offset the pitch up tendency when the spoilers fully deployed during the landing.

Training might be saying that the two airplanes are the same during landing, but standards sure doesn't think that way. I've recently had that conversation with three of the standards gurus. They still insist that the two can be flown, and more importantly, landed exactly the same way.

The MD-10-10 is an underpowered pig that can't get out of its own way. It hand flies like a 30 year old airplane. And that's exactly what it is. I've always been confused by the complaints about how the MD-11 hand flies. I like it. LSAS is a wonderful thing. It makes life easy if you understand it and let it do its job.

I've got over 10 years on the MD's and will do my level best to avoid flying the MD-10. I guess that fact that I hate domestic flying just adds to my dislike of the airplane.

MaxKts

Ranger, I'm guessing you made a typo in your statement. Not sure which STDS guys you were flying with but, the last few I flew with all wanted to make sure I understood the differences on how the -10 lands. Many of them don't want a repeat of the landings on 36R or 36L, take your pick.

I did talk to a freind just finishing Capt IOE and he said he was counseled by his instructor for holding the throttles during landing in an MD-10. He smiled, nodded his head and said I'm going to continue doing it.

Obviously there is still some differences of opinion out there. Wish they all would get on the same page!

And I'm not complaining about how the -11 hand flys (although most don't know, AP on at 500 feet - off around 300). It is a sweet airplane, just trying to describe the difference to someone who has not flown it.

Ranger

Were you talking to standards check airmen or line check airmen? There is a difference.

Two of the guys that I went toe to toe with were, as I said, standards gurus. Decision makers.

MaxKts

They were standards check airmen. One even said he will probably lose his standards job soon because he "didn't play well with others". Too much rocking the boat