FDX--More rumors of 767
 

Since this forum is filled with rumor and innuendo...and I'm bored this evening...let's discuss interesting rumblings coming out of Mempho that are secondhandedly corroborated at Boeing that we have a deal in place to buy 80-120 767-300ERs. Announcement in September and Boeing can provide us with 10 per month if we'd like. These would be a 1 for 1 replacement for the MD-10.

So:

1) How could this work?
2) What size bid, if any?
3) How would Cologne be impacted by this, if at all?
4) If it is a 10 replacement and maybe depending on the number of options we get, a Bus replacement, what does the future of the 11 look like in MEM, LAX, ANC either by themselves or in combo?
5) Potluck question here...discuss.

WM

One thing I hope Fedex has learned is that you don't sell a ready made cargo jet to someone who can instantly turn them into your competition, ie Peoples Expresses. Turn them all into homes for the fish. Now that's a lot of new reefs........:cool:

I think the really interesting question is whether the 767 would be dual typed with the 757 or 777?

The 757 and 767 are a common type rating. I'm not sure where guys are getting the 767 and the 777 are going to be the same type. Maybe the confusion is coming from the fact that the 767-400 has a similar cockpit to the 777 but it's still a 767.

I flew 767-300, 767-200 and 757s interchangeably. I see huge advantages for the company to buy the 767-300 so as to have a common type with the 757. Domestic fleet flexibility for scheduling would be very nice......for scheduling. Same thing for mixing them into Europe with the CGN base and 757s. This has also been beaten to death on other threads, but we should be paid for what you fly, or the highest rate if on reserve.

Very interesting. I'll believe it when its painted purple and parked on the ramp along with the hundreds of purple painted new-hires we are supposed to hire.

It will definitely be dual typed. That will save the company big bucks and much flexibility. The 76 will be the junior WB since you will be making less when operating the 75. That's the way Delta operates I believe. We should just get rid of the NB pay scale entirely on this round of negotiations. All WB. Problem solved. It seems to work at UPS. This too would probably save the company money since people will probably settle into their niche and not keep chasing the dollar.

I've only heard it was the 767-400ER, not the -300ER. The cab driver in Narita told me the -400 has a similar cockpit to the -777, but it different from the 757 hence no common type. He also said it has a longer fuselage and broader wingspan than the -300.

To quote the Boeing website: "The 767-400ER is an ideal replacement for L-1011, DC-10-30 and A300 airplanes that are no longer economical in today's highly competitive business environment." Which would make sense if it's planned to replace the MD-10s and the A300s.

Was that a typo Manny or did you specifically hear -300 vs -400? Inquiring minds want to know.

Hey PD,

DAL has 3 common type/ same pay categories. All flying is paid at the higher rate.......it is negotiated in the contract. I agree that Purple 75's should be brought up to Wide Body rates ; or at the very least, established as a " large Narrow Body " with an appropriate bump above 72 rates.

Good luck,
BG

There is only one type rating for the 757/767, including all models of each. As far as I know, that is and checked the FAA site. The guys at Continental fly the 767-400 on the very same type rating as we have for purple 757/767 rated pilots. The level of differences training and how they segregate the flying (or not) IDK. I think the FAA though is clear, there is not a B767-400 type. Will FDX try to get the "common" type with a 777? We have done it before....:)

We made the 57 pay "narrow body" so we could have A380 pay rates that have benefited those that bid it so well :eek: :mad: :confused:

Why would we want to screw those guys just to make the 57 pay better?

Hey Max,

I understand your frustration. I was still around when the company snookered us on 75 rates. Although I know most of the guys on the 777, most bid it without a negotiated rate ; so it must have been enough.

I don't know if you can recapture premium rates for the 777, but seems the 75 rates might be a little easier to tackle. The next contract for many carriers will determine the worth of our profession in the forseeable future.

Good luck to us all,
BG

Fedelta,
I would venture to say that at this point, the majority of pilot on the 777 bid it after there was a pay rate. It has grown a lot since the initial cadre.
(I know that I bid it after it had a rate).

It was BC who rejected the 757 W/B rate in exchange for A380 rates...

Ummm ... because he and DW were senior enough to bid it and get? (Part of our, "I got mine" crowd? :eek:

FDX & Walrus,

Wow, I stand corrected. I'm not sure how I missed that little tidbit. Walrus, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that to all, or paint with such a broad stroke.

Apologies,:o
BG

No worries Fdelta, just frustrated with the majority here as a whole who still use the "they bid it without a pay rate" mentality. The 777 has been here going on three years now, and many of those currently rated on it bid it knowing that we had been screwed by the company, as well as the early bidders. Bottom line is it is a legitimate airframe at fedex and should not continue to have the scarlet letter attached for the previous actions of a small percentage of pilots.

Sounds like you know many who bid it without a payrate.

Since you're at Delta, can you offer an opinion on how these guys compare to Delta pilots. Personality wise that is.

many of us think our no pay rate guys are one ways.

I think it is the custom lanyards, triple 7 embroidered shirts, booting of J/S and other antics that keeps the rest of us rolling eyes when a "we fly the Triple" crew walks in:D

That is how we distinguish the initial cadre from the rest of us. But remember, they all came from other airframes.

oh.... I thought they were direct hires from the retiring space shuttle program

Actually heard the cheapest option for the company was to have the 767 with the 787 buttons up front. Just sayin.

That is why the rumor is it will not be a common type for FDX for 757/767 because the 767 will be too different....just saying

I would venture to wager that Boeing can create the aircraft to be duel qualified with either the 757 or 777. I depends on what the Company wants. We already know that the FAA will bend over and sign off on whatever Fred requests.

Hey Gunter,

I probably should keep my mouth shut on that one, but for the sake of argument ; what is a "one way" ?

BG

If they use Boeing's cockpit, it would require differences training - type rating is the same.

That is the funniest thing I've seen since I've been coming here....

All about "ME"

Really, I live for it's all about you Gunther.................Why would I worry about myself, I know you only think about the 4600 other pilots here
:rolleyes:

see what I mean?

If it is duel qualified, will we be able to use pistols, or are we going to be stuck with swords, due to the possibility of a bullet accidentally puncturing the aircraft skin?

Wordsmith!

The arbitrator ruled on 777 pay rates in September of 2010.

The next bid after that ruling closed in April of 2011.

The last crews to train from any previous postings (before the arbitrator ruled) were trained in late Spring/early Summer of 2011 (May 2011?)

So, I think your data is a little skewed.

There are VERY FEW pilots who are "currently rated on it" that bid it "knowing that we had been screwed..."

in fact - almost 100% of the pilots "currently rated on it" bid it before the arbitrator ruled.

just sayin'

Trying to find the article I saw which stated that the 767-400 has longer main gear to accommodate the bigger engines. That in turn makes it an uphill push for the cans, just like the -330.

I think I read the A330F has a modified nose gear (and modified nose wheel well) to fix this problem. Notice that the A330F has a "blister" of sorts around the nose gear wheel well ...

Photos: Airbus A330-243F Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

Part of the problem i heard is that Boeing will not put our aftermarket 757 cockpit in the 767. One opinion was to get all upcoming 757's with the 767 cockpit and just redo the 757's that we have on property already.

Correct. Actually, the modification on the -330F is to move the attachment point lower. That allows them to use the same nose gear parts as the PAX version.

The 767-400ER also has longer gear and uses the 777 wheels on the mains. Then there are the can issues with the 767.

In any case, we should know soon. Then we just have to wait for them to change their minds a few times.

I had heard that these 400's were new ones from the factory.... don't know if it's the SC or WA factory..... and that the can issue was already addressed since it's a new jet right off the production line. I had heard no dual type rating, a max cargo weight of 110K lbs, and they are not the ER version.

Apparently, the tooling and dyes are available immediately because of the new USAF tanker which is based on the 767. Hence, Boeing can gin up the production line and build x number of them before they have to start producing them for the USAF.

At least that's what the bus driver on bus #363 said last week.... oh and one of the jumpseat lady's said that the 330 had the same wingspan as the 777 and that it would not physically fit on some of our domestic ramps.

Boeing has their cockpit, IS&S has their 757/767 cockpit. We can do either. IS&S would just take another stop before delivery.

Except you cant get it to IS&S without 1st buying Boeings cockpit. Or else you need a really big trailer.

I'll bet on the bait n switch
 

My money is on the A330-F. Airbus got burnt by Boeing when fred (and later UPS) dumped the A380 for the B777. I'll guess that the French would love to return the favor by stealing the 767 deal. We have an Airbus presence at FDX now...sims, pilots, AQP, can't believe Tolouse would just kiss us goodbye...just sayin'.