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Fedex - deep breath on the rest rules

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Fedex - deep breath on the rest rules

Old 12-29-2011, 09:15 AM
  #1  
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Default Fedex - deep breath on the rest rules

It's been a week since we got the news - and the specifics. They aren't required to be implemented for 2 years.

Perhaps we need to take a hard look at them before we start law suits, petitions and other knee jerk reactions. Hopefully we have some smart folks at Fedex ALPA looking at these rules and really taking the time to figure out how they might change our operation.

Remember this is the same group that took two weeks after the company survey was published to remind us we had the right to "remain silent". Let's give them a chance to do their job.

There is no hurry here. For the most part, I like my schedule. I can barely interpret some parts of our contract and FARs dealing with duty and rest tend to throw me more often than not. I pay dues so that someone smarter than me (I hope) can break these rules down and give me the "reader's digest version". So, how about we wait and see how this really looks in the light of day.

If there's no down side here and implementation of these rules will mean QOL/rest/duty improvements across the board, then let's go for it and see if we can make it happen (not holding my breath). However, if we're going to have to commute more frequently and show up sooner, work more days because of lack of efficiency and who knows what else, then maybe we're better off with what we have.

Just my .02
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:48 AM
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Seriously...What makes freight dawgs super human? Just because I go to Mexico I can now have an unlimited duty day just as long as I stay under 12 flights hours in 24... Such BS. I can't tell you how many freaking 20-36 hours days. yeah that is safe. :sarcasm:
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by 727_Driver View Post
Seriously...What makes freight dawgs super human? Just because I go to Mexico I can now have an unlimited duty day just as long as I stay under 12 flights hours in 24... Such BS. I can't tell you how many freaking 20-36 hours days. yeah that is safe. :sarcasm:
I'm not saying the current FARs are suitable. Fortunately, I work for a company that at least has acknowledged that via a reasonable contract with duty limits that don't use the FARs as a max. We don't have unlimited duty days. We can call in fatigued if we need to.

Fedex ALPA is hopefully representing our pilots and our interests. If they're going to put a stake in the ground and fight to make these new duty rules apply to our pilots, then it needs to benefit us.

If you're working 20-36 hour duty days, then you don't work for Fedex. I'm sorry you're dealing with that because we are not super human. It's probably difficult to call fatigued without fear of repercussions. You're in a bad situation. You can call me selfish, because that's what I am in this situation. I have a pretty good contract and pretty good QOL and work rules. If implementing these FARs is going to ultimately result in reducing my QOL and forcing work rule changes I don't want, then I don't want the new FARs. I don't want my union putting whatever horsepower they have behind a misguided effort to change something that might not actually result in an improvement for our pilots.

I don't know the answer to that question, hence my call for a little restraint in pushing for these FARs without some analysis.
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Old 12-29-2011, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post
There is no hurry here. For the most part, I like my schedule. I can barely interpret some parts of our contract and FARs dealing with duty and rest tend to throw me more often than not. I pay dues so that someone smarter than me (I hope) can break these rules down and give me the "reader's digest version". So, how about we wait and see how this really looks in the light of day.


Here's the reason we need to fight the cargo cutout!!


NAME LNDGS EMPLNO 16HR DUTY/DATE
.
CAPT : XXXXXXXXXX 18 00000 0430/15
F/O : XXXXXXXXXX 17 00000 1140/15
.
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dckozak View Post
Here's the reason we need to fight the cargo cutout!!


NAME LNDGS EMPLNO 16HR DUTY/DATE
.
CAPT : XXXXXXXXXX 18 00000 0430/15
F/O : XXXXXXXXXX 17 00000 1140/15
.
Look, I'm not saying the cut-out isn't BS.

If the above is your only problem with the current situation, then that's a pretty easy fix. We don't work 16 hour duty days as a rule, so the fact that they do the math for you on your flight release shouldn't be that big a problem.
Our operational limits under the worse case scenario only exceed what's in the new rules by 30 minutes. It takes an operational emergency declaration to go the the FAR limit and you always have the fatigue card. How many OEs have we had this year? Maybe 5? So, actually working a 16 hour duty day really isn't your problem - let's be realistic.

All I'm saying is the devil is in the details. I'm trying to research these new rules and I have questions about what I'm reading. One, for instance, is about the extra flying we would do unaugmented. The limit is 8 right now and the extensions seem to be based on your home base time. 3 or 4 days into an around the world, my body doesn't know what base time is any longer. If I happen to show up for a leg that used to require an RFO, is there just going to be two of us because that departure time happens to fall into what was my base time 4 days ago?

Personally, I'd rather not fly from CGN to DEL (ever actually) unaugmented if that ends up being an option under the new rules just to get the 16 hour duty day off the table. I'm not saying it is because I'm not very good at interpreting FAA speak.

I just want someone to really look at this before we go for it, that's all.

Last edited by Adlerdriver; 12-30-2011 at 07:23 AM.
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post
...There is no hurry here. For the most part, I like my schedule...If there's no down side here and implementation of these rules will mean QOL/rest/duty improvements across the board, then let's go for it and see if we can make it happen (not holding my breath). However, if we're going to have to commute more frequently and show up sooner, work more days because of lack of efficiency and who knows what else, then maybe we're better off with what we have...
Great post. Thanks. +1
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Old 12-29-2011, 07:24 PM
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The problem is a lot of the 121 Supplimental Carriers DO NOT have the nice contracts of FEDEX and UPS to limit them to 16 hours. I would wager a guess their are more cargo carriers that use the regs to their max then those that don't.

The fatigue program the FAA has put out helps some but isn't the answer.
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Old 12-30-2011, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post

All I'm saying is the devil is in the details. I'm trying to research these new rules and I have questions about what I'm reading. One, for instance, is about the extra flying we would do unaugmented. The limit is 8 right now and the extensions seem to be based on your home base time. 3 or 4 days into an around the world, my body doesn't know what base time is any longer. I happen to show up for a leg that used to require an RFO, is there just going to be two of us because that departure time happens to fall into what was my base time 4 days ago?

Personally, I'd rather not fly from CGN to DEL (ever actually) unaugmented if that ends up being an option under the new rules just to get the 16 hour duty day off the table. I'm not saying it is because I'm not very good at interpreting FAA speak.

I just want someone to really look at this before we go for it, that's all.
I'll take it at face value at this point (haven't yet read the new FAR) that there is some bad along with the good in the new rest rules. And while we look at the new regs, the company has the option of implementing them. If the good changes are better (from the companies prospective) they can voluntarily implement the new rules. Anyone want to take bets on FedEx doing so??
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Adlerdriver View Post
I'm not saying the current FARs are suitable. Fortunately, I work for a company that at least has acknowledged that via a reasonable contract with duty limits that don't use the FARs as a max. We don't have unlimited duty days. We can call in fatigued if we need to.

Fedex ALPA is hopefully representing our pilots and our interests. If they're going to put a stake in the ground and fight to make these new duty rules apply to our pilots, then it needs to benefit us.

If you're working 20-36 hour duty days, then you don't work for Fedex. I'm sorry you're dealing with that because we are not super human. It's probably difficult to call fatigued without fear of repercussions. You're in a bad situation. You can call me selfish, because that's what I am in this situation. I have a pretty good contract and pretty good QOL and work rules. If implementing these FARs is going to ultimately result in reducing my QOL and forcing work rule changes I don't want, then I don't want the new FARs. I don't want my union putting whatever horsepower they have behind a misguided effort to change something that might not actually result in an improvement for our pilots.

I don't know the answer to that question, hence my call for a little restraint in pushing for these FARs without some analysis.
Okay... I will call you selfish.
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Old 12-30-2011, 06:06 AM
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I think the ALPA motto is "Got Mine."
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