Pilot7576

There are some advantages to having one rate of pay...you choose your equipment based on what you want to fly instead of based on chasing the bigger dollars. We have very senior 727 guys who are happy (at least for now) and senior guys bidding the -400. While our 380 pay (if we ever get them) will also be the same, I would rather everyone be paid a little bit higher than just the few at the top on the 380.

I think you guys are screwed on the 757 (it's already in the contract) but you might be able to get super wb pay for the 777F. The question begs, is this the biggest a/c (max togw) that you have had on your property? How does it compare the the 747's you used to have? Fred may say it's not that much different than the wb you have right now.

JMO

Pilot7576

Nashmd11

I totally disagree Pilot7576. The only reason pilots like the one pay scale here at UPS is because this is what they know. This was the way it was since they were hired, and most military pilots never flew under a differential pay scale.

The problem is, from 1988 to 2006, our whole pay scale was narrow body pay. And a guy flying 1 hour on a 72 sould NOT make the same as a 76 or MAD Dog guy flying internationally. SWA is paying 190 a trip for a 737. DAL and UAL were paying 260 an hour for a 757! 318 an hour for a 777. I would rather have 318 to look forward to on the 747 and 260 an hour on the narrowbodies than 223 for the whole fleet. I would love to fly that 1 hour leg and take the pay hit. Vecause that pay would be the same as we are getting now.

Pilot7576

Nash...

If you run the numbers, I think you will find that your total career earnings are higher with the one pay scale than the differential pay. Sure, it's nice to make bigger bucks flying the -400 and maddog, but I would rather have the choice of flying whatever I want to fly and still get widebody pay.

You're right, between 98-06 we were stuck with a lower pay rate while the legacies kicked out butt! But the change from the contract previous was large: it's unrealistic to expect to basically double your pay from contract to contract. You can wish it, but it won't make it come true. You look at the seniority of the -400 drivers for the legacies flying intl, and you'll see what I mean about only the top few making the top wage. We're much better off financially with the one pay scale as long as it's a wb pay scale.

JMO

Pilot7576

MAWK90

The fundamental problem with a one tier payscale like UPS and even to a certain extent ours at FedEx is that the most senior, experienced Captains may not be flying the biggest jet to the far away places.

Think about the Majors. At UAL, DAL, AA, NWA the 747-400 Captains are the guys that have been there forever. They have the most experience. They should be flying the most sophisticated equipment into challenging foreign enviroments.

At FedEx, some of our most seasoned vet's are tooling from MEM-MCI in an A310 for the same basic $$ that a relatively junior Captain is getting to go into Almaty in an MD-11.

I have always been a believer in a pay breakout. That is how you get the 50-55 yr old's with the hours to chase the big jets. The upside is you get great experience in the most dangerous places.

IMO of course

Pilot7576

Mawk...

You make a good point for the company wanting experienced pilots operating in the tougher environments internationally...but personally, I would rather be doing a milk run where I'm not changing around my body clock more than 3 time zones when I'm that old. The old guys at the legacies, if they had a choice, I think, would be doing the same milk runs. As you get older (at least in my case) crossing that many time zones takes a lot longer to recover from.

Maybe they could just up the intl override, which does the same thing to the hourly pay rate, albeit on a smaller scale.

JMO

Pilot7576

Huck

Remember this about FDX (and UPS, I guess): Our good trips are o.k., but our bad trips are worse than any legacy ever dreamed of.

I just crossed the pacific over to the orient for 4 nights of midnight Subic hub turns, then a crossing back. I'd slit a vein if I thought I couldn't do better than that when I'm senior.....

767pilot

Not only that, but you get your money earlier allowing for the time value of money to give you a nice tailwaind. It really isn't a bad system, and as far as I can see, our narrowbody pay isn't much different from anybody's wide body rates. That includes FDX's so I am not sure why that guy even brought it up. Talk about tweaking your own nose.

I will agree that it means in many cases our least experienced guys are flying difficult international trips that at a legacy carrier would be flown by the most experienced crews, but I see that pretty much as the company's problem and not mine.

Jetjok

I don't believe your one tier pay scale is about you, the pilot. It's about managements ability to not have to constantly worry about 25% of the crew force being in training, and therefore, not operating revenue trips. Having said that, the future value of money does help you guys out, long term. However, I'd prefer to have something to look forward to along the way of life, and not just money. With UPS's one tier system, once you've made the left seat, you're basically done, unless you want to change aircraft, for the sake of changing aircraft. For everyone else, we get to look forward to learning new equipment, new routes, and meet new friends. I know you guys voted in your system, but the system that's used in the rest of the industry works well also. It's sort of like your "monthly" line bidding system. Whereas most other airlines bid on a monthly basis, you guys bid on a 3-month basis (except for Oct, Nov & Dec.) Both systems appear to work. Which is better? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, said the farmer kissing the cow.

767pilot

Haven't you ever heard of instant gratifictaion? You must be unamerican

Coming from the traditional type of system, I thought the system would suck when I got here....It doesn't. Can't say much else about it. Guys on the biggest planes are a little underpaid, guys on the smallest planes are a little over paid. The challenge comes in making sure you have a valid pay rate for all equiptment as the average fleet size grows. With 7576, I think we need more in the way of international pay.

Vito

Two points, flying internationally may be different, but after 2 trips its no more difficult than anything else. Your not trying to time control to an Air refueling point, or drop a GBU down a chimney....your just flying in a different country.
Second point, here's the big hidden benefit of a one tier pay scale....normal progression at a legacy, a F/O flies a narrow body and graduates to a wide body, but come upgrade to Captain, your back on a narrow body for a very long time, only making wide body Capt pay the last few years, with a one tier system I am making wide-body pay from day one as a Captain. Your pay goes up about $70,000 a year, as opposed to maybe $15,000 from a wide-body F/O to narrow body Capt at a legacy, now figure it would take 10 years to upgrade to wide body Capt, I'm making that $55,000 extra for those 10 years that a narrow body Capt only see's in his last few years as a wide body capt at a leagcy.....a hidden benefit...I hope this is clear as mud,
Take care,
Vito