..........:D +1

I agree. I don't want to see anyone lose their job but I don't think it's a good idea for the union to start getting involved decisions about staffing levels. If the company thinks they have too many pilots then they need to make the decision about how to handle that. I know we all think that, because we know how to operate an airplane that means we are experts on how to manage an airline, but...


The whole premiss seems to lack in common sense. The information I've seen so far indicates the company management is proposing concessions to the CBA that would actually reduce the number of pilots needed. If the proposed LOA includes an anti-furlough clause and guaranteed recalls, then I might consider it. Otherwise, I think any LOA that allows the company to operate with less pilots will eventually lead to more furloughs.


I also think that 1224 needs to be careful to avoid a situation where they seem to favor one subset of the pilot group over another subset of the pilot group. I also wonder about the legality of offering pilots under furlough notice the option of taking a leave of absence. I don't know if that has been offered before. I was never offered the option of taking a leave of absence instead of getting furloughed.


I suggest we stick to the contract and leave management decisions to management. We just need to make sure that they follow the CBA. It's really very simple. If management thinks they have too many pilots, they should furlough.

"fix the voting process"....this not something we get to vote on. It is in the Teamsters bylaws. You have no way of knowing if someone who has moved on might decide to return if his/her situation changes. All members in good standing whether on furlough or not.... are allowed to vote on representation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nitefr8dog (Post 1301272)

"fix the voting process"....this not something we get to vote on. It is in the Teamsters bylaws. You have no way of knowing if someone who has moved on might decide to return if his/her situation changes. All members in good standing whether on furlough or not.... are allowed to vote on representation.

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Just for clarity...under the Teamster bylaws (not limited to aviation, etc.), members who are in good standing, even if on withdrawal (i.e. furlough) are to ballot on any vote that is subject to a change in working conditions, wages, rules. The only restriction for those on withdrawal is the restriction from voting on officers and representatives (i.e. Exco, steward votes). Once a member is removed from the membership roster, such as their recall time limit expiration, or they voluntarily resign/retire they are no longer eligible for voting in any process.

This will not change, has been a long standing process based from the roots of Teamster division and operations.

I need to see what they come up with before I make a decision. From what I've heard so far, I can't imagine their proposal will pass. We are not going to just give up our contract for nothing.

OK. Thanks for that information.

In this case, I don't think it'll matter because, from what I'm hearing, there seems to be little chance that any concessions will pass under these circumstances.

I wasn't sure what a "premier carrier" looked like. Now I know.

It sounds likely that ATI will start this new work out of Jakarta operating two or three 767s. Operating out of a distant station will probably require 12 or 14 crew members per plane. So, two or three planes will require 24 to 42 crew members. With this new work coming, it would seem that ATI would be recalling instead of furloughing more.

If we were not in the middle of this merging process, how much lead time would ATI need to get ready for the Jakarta work? The ATI CBA says:

“E. Recall Notice

Furloughed Crewmembers shall be notified of their recall in Category in writing. The notification shall specify a date of return to Active Service. A recalled Crewmember may, but shall not be required to, return to active duty less than 21 calendar days after the date of receipt of such notice. The time of receipt by recipient's post office will apply for the time limit specified. When justifiable circumstances exist, additional time to report for duty may be permitted by the Company.

F. Recall Notice Answer
Each Crewmember shall answer the recall notice in writing. Such answer must be received by the Chief Pilot within seven calendar days from the time when receipt of the recall notice has been made at the Crewmember's last filed address, and shall state the Crewmember's intent to accept or reject recall as provided in paragraph 8.G., below.”

That means it would take at least a month before a crew member could even start back at work. Then there would probably be some additional training or other preparation since the furloughed crewmembers have been out for such a long time now. That means ATI should be recalling furloughed pilots now or earlier to get ready for the new flying in mid-January. Instead, they are sending Capital guys through indoc and making plans to phase out the 727s. What's next? Differences training?

The company is manipulating this process because Capital guys cost less. Please understand that I am not blaming the Capital guys. They're are just doing what they're told to do. I blame management and I blame ALPA for refusing to address this problem. Some people would say that you can't blame management for trying to get the lowest coast labor they can get in a union environment. There are two side to that argument and I'm not going to get involved in that debate. However, I think ALPA has a clear duty to represent all member and they are failing to do so.

Jakarta is suppose to start mid January. I was told it would start with one airplane and slowly grow. Someone needs more money in Indonesia it seems so ATI doesn't have to revamp their operation and are able to use the 121 certificate.

Money talks :D

Uhuh....well, if you think Jakarta is going to start anytime soon (think months, if ever), then you'll also subscribe to the BS about ABX and ATI merging. Or that ABX (or ATI, or CCI) are premier carriers.

I wouldn't hold your breath for any of this....blue won't be the color you'd turn. I'd go for skeleton gray.