Airline Pilot Central Forums - Cappy Parking 727s Next Month?

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)

- Cargo (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/)

- - Cappy Parking 727s Next Month? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/71222-cappy-parking-727s-next-month.html)

I personally don't think it has ever been said CCI brings nothing to the merger. I was actually excited at the "theory" in fact. Both sides have skeletons in their closets but that shouldn't prevent a successful merger going forward. The divide and conquer management theory has been in play all along.

Just my personal view of course.

Also remember the new hires + that love to come on here and stir the pot they would love to see ATI fail, all assets would go to ABX and they could go back carrying seniority. I know a lot of ATI people, carried a lot of them in my Jumpseat. Great guys, I look toward moving forward and working together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 757niteflyer (Post 1296594)

"all assets" a few aircraft.....wow

Quote:

Originally Posted by 757niteflyer (Post 1296594)

Neither CCIA or ATI have any assets. Get familiar with your company.
Everything is leased from CAM and could be removed anytime Hete wants. The fact that he kept both ATI and CCIA operating should turn a light bulb on, in a curious mind.
Operating three carriers that essentially all do the same, for the same entity with the same equipment......one is losing its ass, the other is tiny and you keep pumping cash at the duplicity, mmmme why?
Imagine how expensive three sets of everything is? Its is way more expense than the Abx crew costs would have been to fly everything. So it wasn't/isn't about money.

Understand one thing, CCIA was kept around for one reason, so Hete could have flying done at cheaper rates than his contract at Abx allowed.
Its about politics and union busting.
Do not trust this management team at either ATI or Abx or CCIA. They are all run by ex Airborne guys. The end game is always union busting divide and conquer tactics, which so far both CCIA and ATI have fallen for hook line and sinker.

PS, why the hate for your perhaps soon to be brethren at Abx?

Stop looking at this like a pilot with rose colored glasses on, step on the other side and look at this from a managers position.
CCIA was a small poorly managed bottom feeding airline that eacked out meager profits. Not the great lion you keep bragging about.
You brought 3-4 savable aircraft to the table and "whip saw". I fail to see anything more.
In fact IMHO the main reason CCIA was kept alive was for union busting and nothing more.

I think it seems obvious that this process was manipulated by ATSG management to ensure that more ATI pilots would be furloughed and less CCIA pilots would be furloughed at the date when the lists are merged. I doubt anyone is surprised by this.

It looks like there MAY have been some cooperation and coordination between ATSG management and ALPA to shape the process in a way that harms ATI pilots. If this turns out to be the case, it should be explored at a level higher than ALPA. In order for that to happen, a group of people would have to work together to get some legal assistance. Possibly an injunction to halt the process until there is an opportunity to examine this in the light of day and decide on further actions.

I am NOT making any accusations. I am only suggesting that it might be worth exploring.

Does anyone see this as actionable and worth pursuing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 757niteflyer (Post 1296576)

Ccia was in the black since 1995, even through all the BAX years. Peter fox never wanted a world wide carrier, never wanted wide bodies he was very happy with the relationship with Bax and also the little bit of DHL flying out of Mia which was also very profitable. We had contracts with emery that went away, and the post office that went away. Bax ended up being the only game in town for the domestic 72. We still made money, not much.

Was it as profitable as ATI back than ? Absolutely not. But don't forget at one point in time express net, kitty hawk, and cat were all sitting on the Bax ramp in 72s trying to get a piece of the pie. So their was never big profits to be had. Which means the pilot contract was also never lucrative either.

Fast forward to Bax/DHL and ATSG new owners. They grew us to a point that was not sustainable because that's what they new, the crews were screaming you cant do this. They wasted tons of money on bad schedules and over staff. Their was no way we were gonna be profitable while our new management was going through a steep learning curve.

So all that got eventually reduced drastically the other way. Where are we now is pretty much the way we use to operate for Bax. Our management went through the learning phase and we are operating normal.

As for FAA, all the LOIs we had that Ken O helped us get, got cleared couple of years ago. I know their was lots of threats of fines I don't know if they were mitigated down or if they were settled to zero. All that was done a couple years ago.

Do we have a great operating certificate, no, I never said nor any Ccia person is gonna tell you it is. Do the 72s bring anything ? Of course they do, they have contacts and operating revenue just like the 75s.

I have to respect your extreme loyalty to CCIA. Good for you.
Please do not give that same undying loyalty to your new owners.
They will chew you up and spit you out. Look what they have done at both ATI and Abx. Pliots are a commodity just like jet fuel and tires.
Your loyalty is a one way street and totally pointless.
They would fire you on Christmas eve if they could find a cheaper heart beat and never look back.
The pilots within ATSG are not people with familys. They are a dollar figure, the end game is always to drive this dollar figure lower and lower.
If you don't beleive me, just ask any of the 1000 guys that have worked as pilots for JH over the years.
You need to understand and solidify your new position within this brave new world.

While i know you won't agree, Abx was the aquiring airline in all of this mess. Yet they have felt the most labor pain, both internally and with the ATI transplants.
This is and was always about money. It was never about retaining long term loyal employees.
Abx has more guys on furloughwith over 10 years of seniority than the entire pilot group at CCIA/ATI.
It doesn't take a calculator to figure why.

Did ABX2040 takeover the atlas ? KCVG-KORD Is this a permanent thing, if so why?

Robby

Quote:

Originally Posted by blogwth (Post 1296626)

Yes I do.
I think this is exactly what has happened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfx104 (Post 1296648)

Did ABX2040 takeover the atlas ? KCVG-KORD Is this a permanent thing, if so why?

Robby

2040 to like 2046 are Atlas recovery flight numbers. One of the POSs must have broke hard again. On Friday, one broke in MSP and ABX sent a plane (ABX2007) to cover MSP-TOL-CVG (ABX2040). The Atlas plane didn't leave until Saturday afternoon as a PAC callsign; really strange there, might have been a simple flight tracking error though.

If the flights go back to the three digit flight numbers, then it is permanent. CVG-ORD replaced CVG-PHX-SAN to help Atlas with recovery flights but it still doesn't seem to be helping (over the last two weeks alone ABX has recovered at least one the five GTI flights almost every night). I'd assume SFO is next to go back to ABX metal with a trade for BOS or EWR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitter (Post 1296640)

Let me ask a couple questions, serious no BS,

You are now in an ACMI environment you are competing for contracts. How has ATI and Capital hurt ABX when you have ATLAS sitting on the ramp flying the same planes as you ?

I've grown up in this ACMI world. At one time in Miami we had ARROW, FINE, MILLON, SOUTHERN and CHALLENGE all competing for a handful of contracts. The people that made out was the brokers who had the contracts. If you didn't cut your cost you lost contracts. I watched pilots literally fly DC8s at fine, lose a contract, get furloughed, get hired at ARROW to fly the same contract at a different rate.

BAX did the exact same thing with the 72s. We were always in competition with CAT, KITTY HAWK, and EXPRESS NET to stay alive. If you didn't play ball you went out of business. Even at ATI (correct me please but this was the way it was told to us) BAX was a small cash flow compared DOD work. Who made out BAX did.

When ALPA opened up Capitals books they acknowledged they had no money to be had. It's a bare bone operation that got beat up constantly by BAX.

Can't you see DHL doing the exact same thing, yet you blame capital and ATI and Hete. Why don't you blame who the real person that's DHL.

I had one of the ABX MEC in the JS he even acknowledge the next contract is gonna be a disaster. Because of the DHL model that's set up.

Your at the bottom of a seniority list where your competing 1 aircraft and 1 contract at a time. How much job security do you really think their is ?

Like I said maybe its because I grew up in the ACMI world. But it's really tough to stand your ground and pound your fists and make demands when your not moving your own freight and passengers.