Worst Cargo Airlines to fly for (Pay,QOL,ETC)
05-08-2013, 07:56 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: Left seat of a Jet
Posts: 514
Originally Posted by Rocket Bob
UPS operates 234 widebodies, or nearly widebodies. I think when I hired on in '06, they operated 250 give or take. They would have to subcontract a huge amount of volume. Would they just give those planes to Atlas, Air UPS, not sure how that would work, but it would be a gigantic pain. The system meltdown that would occur in this transition is enough to make me not too worried..they are having enough trouble operating the system they "control"
I am not sure how UPS would pull it off as well but I am sure some in management are attempting to find a way how to make that trick happen. I received my first supervisor experience with Evergreen in freight operations in which Evergreen operated some of UPS own aircraft in the Western US. I believe it was Orion Air in which operated UPS own aircraft in the Eastern US. I will never understand why UPS decided to operate the equipment themselves because they have never been happy being the operator.
05-08-2013, 08:09 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,408
I don't fly for UPS, but I know several guys that flew for their jet operators before they took it over.
The issue is control. UPS wants absolute control and the only way to get it is to do it themselves.
The issue is control. UPS wants absolute control and the only way to get it is to do it themselves.
Originally Posted by bozobigtop
I am not sure how UPS would pull it off as well but I am sure some in management are attempting to find a way how to make that trick happen. I received my first supervisor experience with Evergreen in freight operations in which Evergreen operated some of UPS own aircraft in the Western US. I believe it was Orion Air in which operated UPS own aircraft in the Eastern US. I will never understand why UPS decided to operate the equipment themselves because they have never been happy being the operator.
05-08-2013, 09:02 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Brown
Posts: 1,126
Reasons for furlough at UPS.
1. Retirement of 3 man jets. 727s, 747 classics, and DC-8s were parked very quickly and replaced with 767s. Result was need for fewer pilots.
2. Age 60 change. Happened in the middle of reason number 1 above. Result was need for fewer pilots since there were very few mandatory retirements.
3. Over age 60 FEs bid back to the right seats. Result was need for fewer FOs.
4. Worst economic downturn since Great Depression. Result was drop in volume and need for fewer pilots.
5. WorldPort expansion was completed and flights were eliminated in CAE, DFW, PHL, RFD. Result was need for fewer pilots.
6. Scheduling optimization changed. For years UPS staffed the airlines with reserves who rarely flew. Many UPS pilots averaged less than 200 hours a year from 1988 through 2008. This model has changed. UPS will accept an occasional service failure due to lack of pilots since that is far cheaper than keeping excess reserves. Result was need for fewer pilots.
7. Retirement of DC-8 resulted in 150 former DC-8 pilots sitting at home for 18 months with captains making a quarter million and FOs making $150K. This infuriated the bean counters in Atlanta and led to reductions.
8. IPA members elected a president who literally told UPS executives to "f" off. He refused to play the game. The result was UPS being forced to play hardball.
Despite this tsunami of bad news with the worst possible timing, UPS only called for a furlough of 300 and floated the idea of up to 300-500 pilots. 300 pilots got furlough advisements and IPA enacted the open time ban, which increased the requirement for more pilots. UPS halted the furlough at 109 and all but 44 are back.
There is no conspiracy to screw over the pilots. Layoffs of management, hiring freezes, pension contribution freezes were enacted all over the company, and especially outside of the airline. I'm not defending UPS management, but furloughs were inevitable. I am mad about the vacation givebacks and sick leave givebacks along with the reduced guarantee lines nearly all of us did. I think it was 298/300 of the bottom guys took reduced pay. We never should have done that and it was a mistake for the IPA to advise participation. We have learned our lesson though.
I understand why furloughed guys are saying the company is awful. They are basing it on emotion though. UPS doesn't hate you. We are nothing but a number to them--as it should be for any publicaly owned company.
The current open time ban is working. It's obvious. Why we aren't continuing it is beyond me, but we are getting short staffed.
1. Retirement of 3 man jets. 727s, 747 classics, and DC-8s were parked very quickly and replaced with 767s. Result was need for fewer pilots.
2. Age 60 change. Happened in the middle of reason number 1 above. Result was need for fewer pilots since there were very few mandatory retirements.
3. Over age 60 FEs bid back to the right seats. Result was need for fewer FOs.
4. Worst economic downturn since Great Depression. Result was drop in volume and need for fewer pilots.
5. WorldPort expansion was completed and flights were eliminated in CAE, DFW, PHL, RFD. Result was need for fewer pilots.
6. Scheduling optimization changed. For years UPS staffed the airlines with reserves who rarely flew. Many UPS pilots averaged less than 200 hours a year from 1988 through 2008. This model has changed. UPS will accept an occasional service failure due to lack of pilots since that is far cheaper than keeping excess reserves. Result was need for fewer pilots.
7. Retirement of DC-8 resulted in 150 former DC-8 pilots sitting at home for 18 months with captains making a quarter million and FOs making $150K. This infuriated the bean counters in Atlanta and led to reductions.
8. IPA members elected a president who literally told UPS executives to "f" off. He refused to play the game. The result was UPS being forced to play hardball.
Despite this tsunami of bad news with the worst possible timing, UPS only called for a furlough of 300 and floated the idea of up to 300-500 pilots. 300 pilots got furlough advisements and IPA enacted the open time ban, which increased the requirement for more pilots. UPS halted the furlough at 109 and all but 44 are back.
There is no conspiracy to screw over the pilots. Layoffs of management, hiring freezes, pension contribution freezes were enacted all over the company, and especially outside of the airline. I'm not defending UPS management, but furloughs were inevitable. I am mad about the vacation givebacks and sick leave givebacks along with the reduced guarantee lines nearly all of us did. I think it was 298/300 of the bottom guys took reduced pay. We never should have done that and it was a mistake for the IPA to advise participation. We have learned our lesson though.
I understand why furloughed guys are saying the company is awful. They are basing it on emotion though. UPS doesn't hate you. We are nothing but a number to them--as it should be for any publicaly owned company.
The current open time ban is working. It's obvious. Why we aren't continuing it is beyond me, but we are getting short staffed.
05-08-2013, 09:21 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: MD-11 F/O
Posts: 232
Originally Posted by FrontSeat
How many numbers close to furlough did you come? or did you get furloughed?
How much RDG and give backs did you give to save the 108 only to have the company STEAL the money and furlough anyway?
Yes that is right they STOLE money from us. I will never forget that one. Could you get away with that?
How much RDG and give backs did you give to save the 108 only to have the company STEAL the money and furlough anyway?
Yes that is right they STOLE money from us. I will never forget that one. Could you get away with that?
I flew at other airlines where people were angry about a bankruptcy/management/merger.... You only get one life to live, so it's better to keep the job in perspective. I have a family and hobbies I enjoy. The job is a job. UPS ruined any goodwill with the recent (6 years ago!) hires. They are totally backwards on safety and industry best practices. Oh well... I'm still happy...
Enjoy!
05-08-2013, 09:23 AM
#37
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Posts: 404
Originally Posted by NCR757dxr
^
This.....
They have good equipment, good flying, great pay, good benefits, stable company.
Yeah there is some crummy management but that happens everywhere. I usually don't post much outside my comfort zone (121 supp) but it amazes me how many UPS and FedEx pilots get on APC and ***** and ***** and *****..... there are a ton of guys on furlough at other cargo companies that would gladly take your spot if you hate it so much.
Flame away if you want but lets keep it in perspective shall we?
You can also add Florida West to the medium list. Three 767-300s out of MIA flying for Lan Cargo mostly. Decent aircraft too.
This.....
They have good equipment, good flying, great pay, good benefits, stable company.
Yeah there is some crummy management but that happens everywhere. I usually don't post much outside my comfort zone (121 supp) but it amazes me how many UPS and FedEx pilots get on APC and ***** and ***** and *****..... there are a ton of guys on furlough at other cargo companies that would gladly take your spot if you hate it so much.
Flame away if you want but lets keep it in perspective shall we?
You can also add Florida West to the medium list. Three 767-300s out of MIA flying for Lan Cargo mostly. Decent aircraft too.
05-08-2013, 10:09 AM
#39
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 43
Originally Posted by NCR757dxr
.......... 
Ignorance huh..... forgive me for my ignorance when about 60% of my companies' pilots are on furlough. I would assume some of those furloughed are the Hamburger flippers, so yeah there is truth to that statement you just made.
Ignorance huh..... forgive me for my ignorance when about 60% of my companies' pilots are on furlough. I would assume some of those furloughed are the Hamburger flippers, so yeah there is truth to that statement you just made.
05-08-2013, 11:31 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Posts: 597
Originally Posted by 1111
thanks for making my point...I think you were missing the perspective....but ignorance may actually be the issue after this post. the Hamburger flipper may very well be the furloughed UPS pilot.....
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