I'm not sure when the discussion morphed from: "The pension is not up for negotiation" to us, on our own, weighing the merits of alternatives.

The company is in for the long game. We should be too. They talk constantly about pension, pref bidding, vacation, health care, etc. just to normalize their position to us over the long-term.

Eventually we seem to contract a mild case of Stockholm syndrome and gradually entertain this kind of crap at the periphery.

Over the past decade we have "enjoyed" a five year stagnation in retirements, change from three to two pilot aircraft, 4a2b, cargo cutout, and intentional delays in contract negotiations. Each of these were $h*t sandwiches that the pilot group ate unilaterally.

WE HAVE GIVEN ENOUGH ALREADY! Let's not discuss any of the giveback scenarios (pension or otherwise) in public forums. It just validates the corporate strategy.

Contract (with significant gains) now.

Pipe

I am not sure the discussion has morphed. DB, DC, and a shoebox full of gold are all retirement options and all have advantages and disadvantages. I like my current options and want to keep them. However, were I 30, I might listen to alternatives, particularly if it involved more money up front.

Then you had better come up with some sort of solid-gold, non-negotiable way to protect us from today's newbies (if we ever hire any more) twenty years from now.

The last thing we need is another special interest group within our ranks -- we seem to have plenty of those now.

PIPE

Between drones, trains, blimps and Irish pilots I don't think we will have to worry about newbies reaching critical mass for at least 20 years. But if they do they maybe grateful or ungrateful for us "preserving" the DB plan. Only time will tell. Were I them, I would want my money up front.

This is a very, very important point for all who understand this night cargo game is a slow & steady marathon...not a sprint

Lots of great posts Olly!

Yes, I am pulling numbers out of thin air just like everybody else on this thread. I'm not advocating giving up my pension, and never will, and I'm not saying 20% is the magic number to replace a pension for a new hire.
What I am saying is that Fedex wants out of the insurance business just like all private business does. There is a percentage replacement that would make a defined contributation very attractive to a new hire. What that percentage is, I don't know. But I'm sure alpa has some accountants that can crunch it all out. As a new hire I would be verrryyy interested in having my retirement separate from the company's financial solvency.
The sky is not falling, we don't need divine intervention.

Even the B Plan has caveats to it, there's a reason it's called the Pilot Money Purchase Pension Plan... The company will buy you an annuity with that money when you retire unless you take some very specific steps with it with in a very short amount of time when you retire. Most pilots here no very little about retirement money and thereby are ready to give it away for a smaller benefit IMO... I'll take the DB... If the company wants you to negotiate something away, it's because it's not as good of a deal...

I think you are a little confused about the B Fund yourself

I mean it is much more complicated than that, as a part of your retirement planning most pilots get "smart" via ALPA and other methods. The B Fund has many distribution options including lump sum and direct rollover if you do not want the joint survivor. Of course any option other than the joint survivor (if married) requires spousal consent.

But I tend to agree with you that most pilots not near the goal line have a less than desirable level of knowledge of our plans and rules.

Wait, I thought we were able to walk away from this job and the "B" fund was a pot of money that was mine to do with as I choose. You're saying I don't get this money, but instead get "an annuity with that money when you retire unless you take some very specific steps with it with in a very short amount of time when you retire". What specific steps are you referring to? What is this time limit as well? I obviously need to educate myself on the available options for my B fund.