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Strike Vote at UPS!
UPS Pilots (Independent Pilots Association) Call Strike Vote
Sept 9 (Reuters) - The union representing pilots at package delivery company United Parcel Service Inc said it had urged them to vote to authorize a strike. The Independent Pilots Association said on Wednesday that if the pilots voted in favor of authorizing a strike, its board would have the authority to request a release from federally mediated negotiations with UPS. The National Mediation Board has been mediating since early 2014 in contract negotiations between UPS and its pilots union on issues related to compensation, pension and benefits. Rival FedEx Corp and its pilots tentatively agreed last month on an amended collective bargaining agreement after nearly a year of mediation from the National Mediation Board. "UPS has stalled and delayed, unnecessarily prolonging our negotiations," Independent Pilots Association President Robert Travis said in a statement. "UPS management has created a bitter standoff with its pilot employees." The contract is under the Railway Labor Act, the U.S. labor law that governs railroads and airlines, and it became amendable towards the end of 2011. If the National Mediation Board grants a release from the mediation, a strike or lockout could follow after a 30-day countdown. UPS said it continued to negotiate "in good faith" for a contract and it was confident that the talks would be completed without disruption in its services. "Despite the (union's) announcement, there is no real threat of a strike. Such authorization votes are routine during negotiations in the airline industry, but they are legally irrelevant under the Railway Labor Act," UPS spokesman Mike Mangeot said in an emailed statement. Even if the National Mediation Board grants the union a release from the talks, there are a "series of fail-safes, including presidential and congressional intervention, designed to prevent an interruption in operations," Mangeot said. UPS shares closed at $97.93 on the New York Stock Exchange on Tuesday. (Reporting by Ankit Ajmera in Bengaluru; Editing by Kirti Pandey) |
Originally Posted by FoxHunter
(Post 1967500)
UPS Pilots (Independent Pilots Association) Call Strike Vote
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Originally Posted by ClutchCargo
(Post 1967529)
How'd that work out for the IPA last time they did this?
They expect it, and won't move on anything real until it's done. By what the hell do I know? I've only been here 8 years (4 by their math), so I'm only going off the history I've been relayed. Carry on...... |
Even if the National Mediation Board grants the union a release from the talks, there are a series of fail-safes, including presidential and congressional intervention, designed to prevent an interruption in operations.
Meaning, we spend good money in Washington, and we expect them to remember that.......after all, they cashed the check. No strike for you! (Aka soup episode Seinfeld) |
NO contract has been settled between UPS and its pilots without a strike vote authorization.
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Good luck guys. I truly mean it.
Can any of you control Commando? :) :) |
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Originally Posted by Section Eight
(Post 1967534)
I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I can tell you that we have never been able to close a contract without one (strike vote), and never will. It is my understanding we go through this every time after being jacked around for years on end.
They expect it, and won't move on anything real until it's done. By what the hell do I know? I've only been here 8 years (4 by their math), so I'm only going off the history I've been relayed. Carry on...... Those in the know feel free to slam my recollection of events. |
Originally Posted by UPSFO4LIFE
(Post 1967576)
NO contract has been settled between UPS and its pilots without a strike vote authorization.
We are on #3 or 4 depending on how you count the 2011 "bridge" contract. |
Originally Posted by ClutchCargo
(Post 1967653)
My memory may be faulty but I seem to remember IPA taking a strike vote very early in the negotiating process that led to your 2006 contract. I remember that the NMB felt that by voting to strike so early in negotiations IPA was not negotiating in good faith. As a result negotiations were put on hold for some lengthy time.
Those in the know feel free to slam my recollection of events. http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...s-amazing.html 2006 TA reached: http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ca...67-ups-ta.html |
Originally Posted by UPSFO4LIFE
(Post 1967576)
NO contract has been settled between UPS and its pilots without a strike vote authorization.
It is a pattern repeated every time, it is as old as the migration of birds and nearly as messy. Standard stuff, remain calm and reload. |
Originally Posted by DangaZone
(Post 1967658)
2005 strike vote announced:
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...s-amazing.html 2006 TA reached: http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ca...67-ups-ta.html So. We can expect to see a UPS T/A in about a year then... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by ClutchCargo
(Post 1967694)
So. We can expect to see a UPS T/A in about a year then...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
It's BACK Pay. Not some BS Retro.
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more like 50% on the back pay dollar "signing bonus"
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I wish the FDX pilot group had the cajones of the UPS group.
Over the course of unionized work on property, there is no comparison to the difference in unity and resolve between the two groups. At FDX, it's all about the individual pilot - particularly in the short term. Our TA will be distributed to all in the industry in short order. Read between the lines. This is a COLA TA with minor improvements and significant concessionary givebacks in QOL and productivity gains (scheduling). Our union leadership touts it as industry leading. For how long? A month? The Delta pilots had the resolve to vote their concessionary TA down because they saw the crap-storm looming. Unfortunately, we don't have the cajones at FDX to see it for what it is ... a POS TA. |
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Originally Posted by ClutchCargo
(Post 1967529)
How'd that work out for the IPA last time they did this?
To answer your question - it worked out GREAT! Approximately $1.4 billion in pay and benefit improvements back then. Within weeks negotiations switched from significant pay cut demands to large pay raises.
Originally Posted by ClutchCargo
(Post 1967653)
My memory may be faulty but I seem to remember IPA taking a strike vote very early in the negotiating process that led to your 2006 contract. I remember that the NMB felt that by voting to strike so early in negotiations IPA was not negotiating in good faith. As a result negotiations were put on hold for some lengthy time.
Those in the know feel free to slam my recollection of events. The union communicates potential strike vote intentions to the mediators before such a vote. Had they felt it was too early they'd have expressed those views then. They didn't! While they'll never say do it or don't do it there's never any doubt of the mediators' opinions on such matters. Don't know crap on the subject but I'm betting on a TA 6-12 months after the vote and the follow-up survey. Just my personal views on this. I'm ready for the vote and I'm saving up just in case we get released. While most people say it'll never happen the union leadership was clear - be prepared because stranger things have happened. |
Whale surfer,
Good response to ClutchCargo's statement. I was wondering why CC thought we somehow got screwed in the last contract round. the decline of our schedule quality occurred because of many factors not necessarily related to our contract ( at least most thought at the time of signing, before the company came up with some creative workarounds) |
Thanks for the clarification. I never thought you got screwed. Just that it took 13 months to get a T/A from the time you took the strike vote.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by Vito
(Post 1970236)
Whale surfer,
Good response to ClutchCargo's statement. I was wondering why CC thought we somehow got screwed in the last contract round. the decline of our schedule quality occurred because of many factors not necessarily related to our contract ( at least most thought at the time of signing, before the company came up with some creative workarounds) |
Originally Posted by ClutchCargo
(Post 1970487)
Thanks for the clarification. I never thought you got screwed. Just that it took 13 months to get a T/A from the time you took the strike vote.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Call me crazy but I think that had we (technically 'they' as it was b4 my time here) not had that strike vote back then we'd have been finalizing our 2006 agreement about now... :( Sent from my iPhone XYZ47S using WHO'sYoPapaTalk |
Originally Posted by ClutchCargo
(Post 1970487)
Thanks for the clarification. I never thought you got screwed. Just that it took 13 months to get a T/A from the time you took the strike vote.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by Ray Kinsella
(Post 1970805)
We did get screwed. It was by FDX ALPA opening with pay rates already lower than what UPS agrees to pay us in 2005/6. We (UPS and FDX pilots) were all screwed because the FDX MEC refused to work with the IPA.
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Originally Posted by FoxHunter
(Post 1967500)
UPS Pilots (Independent Pilots Association) Call Strike Vote Sept 9 (Reuters) - ... The contract is under the Railway Labor Act, the U.S. labor law that governs railroads and airlines, ... ... "... there is no real threat of a strike. Such authorization votes are routine during negotiations in the airline industry, but they are legally irrelevant under the Railway Labor Act," UPS spokesman Mike Mangeot said in an emailed statement. Even if the National Mediation Board grants the union a release from the talks, there are a "series of fail-safes, including presidential and congressional intervention, designed to prevent an interruption in operations," Mangeot said. ... (Reporting by Ankit Ajmera in Bengaluru; Editing by Kirti Pandey) The above highlighted statement is instructive, and something we should always bear in mind. It reflects the core attitude of the employer in RLA negotiations. It's the uphill battle we all have to fight. To Management, strike is never a threat. We have the heavier burden in this lop-sided process, but we have tools at our disposal and must use them wisely. Individuals are still free to make their own choices. . |
Originally Posted by Ray Kinsella
(Post 1970805)
We did get screwed. It was by FDX ALPA opening with pay rates already lower than what UPS agrees to pay us in 2005/6. We (UPS and FDX pilots) were all screwed because the FDX MEC refused to work with the IPA.
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Originally Posted by FDXLAG
(Post 1970825)
What has UPS agreed to pay you now so I'll know whether to vote yes or no, don't want to screw you again.
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Originally Posted by Commando
(Post 1971297)
$325.00 an Hour.
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Originally Posted by brownie
(Post 1971388)
Commando don't worry bout FDXLAG he proved in the past that he will do the job for 1/3 of that. 4a2b ;)
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Originally Posted by TonyC
(Post 1970845)
We have the heavier burden in this lop-sided process, but we have tools at our disposal and must use them wisely. Individuals are still free to make their own choices.
. Look at October vacations and open time. |
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
(Post 1971420)
Still bragging about your furloughs?
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Nope never caved. I prefer our model, where everyone gives some instead of putting people on the street. You prefer to sacrifice your young. Hey morality is flexible, tell yourself whatever you need to to feel superior.
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Originally Posted by FDXLAG
(Post 1971608)
Nope never caved. I prefer our model, where everyone gives some instead of putting people on the street. You prefer to sacrifice your young. Hey morality is flexible, tell yourself whatever you need to to feel superior.
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Originally Posted by FDXLAG
(Post 1971608)
Nope never caved. I prefer our model, where everyone gives some instead of putting people on the street. You prefer to sacrifice your young. Hey morality is flexible, tell yourself whatever you need to to feel superior.
We didn't sacrifice anyone. It is UPS who decided to furlough. We, as a pilot group, came up with more $ savings to the company, than the company saved in actually furloughing. IT WAS ALL ABOUT CONTROL BY UPS! They wanted to show the inmates who is running the asylum. When they did furlough, who paid the COBRA for the furloughees? Their IPA brothers. I was once ALPA, thrice furloughed. You want to know what was the most support I ever got? A 1-yr subscription to Kit Darby's pocket. Nor did I ever expect anything - I knew that was a risk of this profession. Why did we do it? BECAUSE IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO! Who had a 98% + success rate in complying with no open time pick up? The IPA. Who raised close to $75,000 VOLUNTARILY for Christmas gifts for their furloughed brothers and sisters the first year alone! The IPA! So, please don't say that WE sacrificed our young. We did everything to prevent UPS from having to do it, they pulled the trigger anyway, so we watched out for our guys. |
Originally Posted by 1800 RVR
(Post 1971676)
Before you go all indignant on UPS pilots, there is something that I wanted to add in this discussion:
We didn't sacrifice anyone. It is UPS who decided to furlough. We, as a pilot group, came up with more $ savings to the company, than the company saved in actually furloughing. IT WAS ALL ABOUT CONTROL BY UPS! They wanted to show the inmates who is running the asylum. When they did furlough, who paid the COBRA for the furloughees? Their IPA brothers. I was once ALPA, thrice furloughed. You want to know what was the most support I ever got? A 1-yr subscription to Kit Darby's pocket. Nor did I ever expect anything - I knew that was a risk of this profession. Why did we do it? BECAUSE IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO! Who had a 98% + success rate in complying with no open time pick up? The IPA. Who raised close to $75,000 VOLUNTARILY for Christmas gifts for their furloughed brothers and sisters the first year alone! The IPA! So, please don't say that WE sacrificed our young. We did everything to prevent UPS from having to do it, they pulled the trigger anyway, so we watched out for our guys. |
Dude or dudette, you started it. The fact is you know nothing about 4A2B but you pretend you do. We have not a had a furlough at FDX because of 4A2B. 4A2b does not cut our payrates it lowers the minimum guarantee. So instead of putting people on the street everyone gets more time off. It does not even guarantee no furlough, obviously like your language, but it does guarantee everyone takes a hit. Hell UPS hired non union pilots while guys were on the street.
Now you guys continuously claim that the first step in your negotiations is pay rates and I simply wanted to know what was on the table before your strike vote. But I guess it is a Secret until after we vote on ours and then miraculously it will be ours plus 25% but you had to settle for our plus a nickle because ALPA screwed you. |
Originally Posted by 1800 RVR
(Post 1971676)
Before you go all indignant on UPS pilots, there is something that I wanted to add in this discussion:
We didn't sacrifice anyone. It is UPS who decided to furlough. We, as a pilot group, came up with more $ savings to the company, than the company saved in actually furloughing. IT WAS ALL ABOUT CONTROL BY UPS! They wanted to show the inmates who is running the asylum. When they did furlough, who paid the COBRA for the furloughees? Their IPA brothers. I was once ALPA, thrice furloughed. You want to know what was the most support I ever got? A 1-yr subscription to Kit Darby's pocket. Nor did I ever expect anything - I knew that was a risk of this profession. Why did we do it? BECAUSE IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO! Who had a 98% + success rate in complying with no open time pick up? The IPA. Who raised close to $75,000 VOLUNTARILY for Christmas gifts for their furloughed brothers and sisters the first year alone! The IPA! So, please don't say that WE sacrificed our young. We did everything to prevent UPS from having to do it, they pulled the trigger anyway, so we watched out for our guys. Dont look at me I'm not indignant. You like your furlough protection I like ours. It is your buddy brownie who has a problem with ours. Now reread this thread, the series of insults started with a slam from one of yours about how FDX MEC screwed you. I didnt slam anyone back I just wanted to know what your next rates were before I voted. It was brownie who wanted a fight and I obliged. Brownie even picked the turf, furlough protection. If you have a problem with idignation start with brownie. |
Originally Posted by TonyC
(Post 1970845)
The above highlighted statement is instructive, and something we should always bear in mind. It reflects the core attitude of the employer in RLA negotiations. It's the uphill battle we all have to fight. To Management, strike is never a threat.
. TonyC ... I basically agree with you, especially now that we carry so much Mail it's unlikely that we would ever be "released" to strike but ... It might not take very much ALPA posturing to get FedEx customers to take their business elsewhere. THAT might get Managements attention! :confused: |
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
(Post 1971420)
Still bragging about your furloughs?
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
(Post 1970825)
What has UPS agreed to pay you now so I'll know whether to vote yes or no, don't want to screw you again.
It is very hard to strike when you have just had your legs amputated. More like impossible. The problem is not the hourly pay rates so much as FDX refused to work with the IPA despite repeated attempts by the IPA to do exactly that....work together. And FDX ALPA refused. I have my intuition as to why FDX ALPA refused to work with the IPA but won't say. The result set everyone back a decade in payscales. |
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