...and we never will.

 

Sarcasm fellas.

 

Yes, and reality.

 

We can create any reality we choose

Yes, it will take leadership, unity and fortitude, but it is possible

Certain environments make it even easier

Such an environment existed

Hopefully, it comes our way again in the future

 

Somewhat schooled TonyC, and to a large extent, conversing over the internet doesn’t come close to a face to face discussion.

I have been scheduled to exceed 8 in 24 domestically twice during my FedEx career. Pairing wasn’t built that way, but Mx and Wx resulted in some long days.
Can’t compete with the multiple quote proficiency, but you stated

"I highlighted and underlined the new language in the last paragraph. If you don't have the desire or capacity to wade through the Block Hour Limitations to see what we've given up, it should be clear that we've given up Rest Provisions. Old rule -- 17 hours, or operationally reduced to FAR limits. New rule -- 13 hours, reducable to 12 hours.

That is a concession, and you don't need to reference 14 CFR because it's irrelevant. We're talking about the CBA, not the FARs or the FOM. Also, don't confuse rest preceding the flight duty with rest required after the flight duty.”

So FARs don’t matter, except that the CBA circles back to the FARs, as you so ably pointed out in your answer. And unless I’m mistaken, the FARs allow rest prior to be reduced to 8 hours provided the subsequent rest is at least 11 hours.

And this particular provision, concession, is applicable to a very distinct segments of flights FedEx operates. Trips that are awarded\assigned that exceed 7:35 block hours during two consecutive Day Duty Periods.
The stated intent behind this change is to eliminate the multiple circadian shifts. Time will tell.


Hotel Rooms. How many sleep rooms is the company contractually required to provide in Memphis? And I understand the 2+30 limitation, but I don’t think it’s very applicable because those folks don’t meet the 4 hour hotel window under any circumstances. I, personally, think the departure times for flights To\From Indy are stable. Mid-December there are 8 instances where the turns at Indy are less than 2+30 (which really means a 1 hour break between Duty). Turns are 1:03, 1:12, 1:22, 1:46, 2:01, 2:02, 2:18, and 2:26. Out of the remaining 49, ballpark split roughly into thirds between layover, Hotel, and Hub. There are people who would always prefer a Hotel over Hub room because they just don’t sleep well in the existing Hub rooms. And there are enough people who prefer to not sacrifice the travel time to their scheduled Hotel room that it’s a recurring issue Pro Standards addresses. So, concession\benefit is in the eye of the beholder.


International different is effectively gone. A hypothetical for your HKG pilot. International allows a 48 hour delay. So what would prevent your HKG pilot from buying a plane ticket w/a 48 hour delay somewhere for the SIBA adventure-then another plane ticket back to HKG. The only hotel expense mentioned is pre-arrival, so no clue whether our adventurous pilot could expense the hotel or not—but Chapter 5 does have some permissive language in it, just don’t think the FC would sign off on it. And our mighty HKG traveler can now check into the scheduled hotel 2 days prior, the 48 hour delay en-route is effectively reduced to 24 hours due to the three day limitation.


My FOM reads a bit differently, but sorry I gave you the impression I thought there were no alert calls AT the International Ramps in question. It’s just been my experience that the Alert Calls I’ve received from Canada, PR, SA, Mexico have always been pickup as scheduled
Having not requested any Alert Calls to Canada, PR, SA, or Mexico departures in Memphis, I have no idea how well they were working. I do know that several RA folks have expressed concern over being called just after midnight for trips showing 2-3 hours later, and I imagine the same holds true for many alert calls. That they reflect poorly upon reality.

Subsequent FOM verbiage
"Upon request, flight crews domiciled in Memphis (MEM) will receive an alert call for trip departures to ANC or HNL and intercontinental destinations (e.g., to Europe, South America, or Asia), but not Canada, Caribbean, or Mexico (Central America) destinations.
Upon request, flight crews in MEM on layovers will receive an alert call.”


Tel Aviv. Question marks indicated a lack of understanding as to what makes it concessionary. So, you can vilify or attempt to explain. International has a longer required rest but also a longer duty day. An extra 5 degrees of latitude extends it 180 NM. I will admit to totally missing the discussion on this issue at purple ta or hidden arrows. FWIW, that extra 5 degrees about matches the difference between Memphis and New Orleans, just a tad over the difference between Memphis and Indy.


What are your next 5?

 

The good old days were USAir's and others 3 to 1 Trip-rig! Yes, the big boys were getting 8 hours of pay every 24 hours TAFB.[/QUOTE]

We had 3:1 at UAL under contract 2000. My uncle braniff/piedmont/and finally USAir took a partial lump sum A plan pay out. PBGC is suing him and fellow pilots to get most of it back due to the distress termination under pump & dump S. Wolf.

 

We had 3:1 at UAL under contract 2000. My uncle braniff/piedmont/and finally USAir took a partial lump sum A plan pay out. PBGC is suing him and fellow pilots to get most of it back due to the distress termination under pump & dump S. Wolf.[/QUOTE]


I don't think Wolf was CEO at the time (2005?)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

And then I tried to upgrade the family desktop from Windows 7 to Windows 10.

Sorry for the delay.




You said you've been scheduled ... but the pairing wasn't built that way. Maybe we need to work on some definitions.

For all the meandering, you finally admitted that this particular provision is a concession. 'Nuff said.



Old CBA -- 4 hour turn gets a hotel room.

New CBA -- 4 hour turn gets a hub sleep room IF The Company meets other parameters.

Concession.

Since there will be the same number of sleep rooms and more pilots vying for them, pilots with hub turns less that 2+30 will have no sleep rooms.

Concession.

Despite whether a pilot chooses to avail himself of a benefit, when the benefit is removed, it's a concession.

It might not matter to YOU, but it's still a concession. And you were asking for the list.



The adventurous, mighty Hong Kong pilot is not on a SIBA adventure. He's assigned to an FDA. Try as you might, you can't cobble together existing benefits to equal the scheduling flexibility the pilot had with the International Hotel in Lieu of deadheading benefit we gave away. Concession.




If your FOM reads differently, you've got a manuals currency problem, because what I posted was copied and pasted directly from the current FOM, Rev 59.1.

So, you agree that you get (got) Alert Calls from Canada, PR, and Mexico, but they've always been "pickup as scheduled." That's great. We always want things to go as scheduled, and you've been lucky. Sometimes things do NOT go as scheduled, and that's where Alert Calls come in. Instead of beginning your duty day with a broken airplane, or an airplane that hasn't even arrived at the station, you remain in rest. Most importantly, the responsibility for waking the pilot is on the alert call instead of on the pilot and his alarm clock. Our System Chief Pilot talked to the MEC recently and explained that one of the big advantages of alert calls and the Crew Wakeup Program is that when a human being tries to rest knowing that someone else has responsibility for making sure he wakes up in time to perform his duty, he sleeps better than if he has to worry about missing his own alarm. He acknowledged the value of better rest and therefore less fatigue.

In fact, he mentioned that he would like to export the crew wakeup program to all our Domestic ramps at some point, and mentioned that our International ramps already do that. I guess he hasn't noticed the CBA concession.


Memphis is a domestic ramp -- not an International ramp. The portion of the FOM you've quoted references alert calls in Memphis.

What we gave up is alert calls at ALL International ramps. Now we have alert calls at SOME International ramps, depending on where the flight goes to. For Example, the old CBA required an alert call for TOR-MEM. The new CBA does not. Concession.



5 degrees of latitude, 180 NM, Memphis and New Orleans, Memphis and Indy ... why do any of these matter? What matters is the distance between Paris and Tel Aviv, nearly 1,800 miles and 4+30 flight time. Under old CBA, this was scheduled under International rules. Under the new CBA, Tel Aviv is magically in the "European theater" and can be scheduled under Domestic Rules, which, again, include the new 8-in-24 concession. Sounds like a great candidate for a Paris hubturn now. Concession.

Not every concession was described in detail on the Purple TA or Hidden Arrows websites. ALL of them were described in their applicable legal language in the TA itself. Of course, as Negotiating Committee member BS told me, we really couldn't expect people to actually read THAT thing.




I'm not sure if you're serious, or this is just an attempt to string me along.


Deviation Check-in -- Final Check-in changed from "no later than 12 hours prior to showtime of a revenue flight that either takes off from, or lands in, a city outside North America" to "for a revenue flight or standby period that required an intercontinental deadhead from the pilot’s base, no later than ... 18 hours prior to showtime of a revenue flight or commencement of the standby period". This paragraph goes on to acknowledge that The Company actually schedules deadheads with tighter parameters, and allows exceptions to the 18 hour rule in those cases, but otherwise, the PILOT has a more regressive requirement than The Company holds itself to. Concession.


Down-Bid Training - Commencement of lower pay rate. Under the old CBA, a pilot who failed downbid training would begin receiving the new, lower pay rate right away. Otherwise, he begins receiving the new, lower pay rate when he activates in the new, lower-paying seat. Under the new CBA, unavailability (e.g., leave of absence, sick leave) is treated as a training failure -- the pilot begins to earn the lower hourly rate of pay 90 days following the pilot's awarded/assigned training date. If you happen to get sick during down-bid training, don't worry -- your pay will be cut anyway. Concession.


Loss of excess bidding procedures. Concession.


Dimensional Weight restrictions placed on relocation shipments (both FDA §6 and FDA). The Negotiating Committee Chairman brags that we have the best restrictions. No restrictions are better, and that's what we had in the old CBA. Concession.


International deadheads on "Dash 8's" or similar airplanes. They don't offer jet service, which was required in the old CBA. Concession.


I think I'm up to 5 again.


Remind me, what was the point of this exercise? You don't think the CBA has concessions?






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The last thing that I want to do is get in the way of this discussion, but a quick question to Tony. I have been putting off installing windows 10. Should I not do it?

 

I've worked with Windows products many, many years, and have done lots of upgrades, never a real problem. They always say back up your data first, but I rarely do. They just work. This one didn't. I wish I would have. It was a royal pain in the neck pulling my data off the hard drive and starting again from scratch.

It seems like an OK system, a little better than 7 in many ways, a lot better than 8 in many ways. I don't discourage the upgrade -- I REALLY encourage backing your stuff up first.


Yeah, yeah, I know -- we should be doing that anyway.





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