kronan

Really flyphisher-117

117 is not the panacea many pilots hoped it would be. More than one of the bro's at AA and UAL have expressed discontent over the limits 117 allows, combined with the opinion that it's also resulted in more Airport Hotel layovers.

When DAL and UAL achieved their industry leading contracts don't really remember them folding to the mgt pressure of NWA's or SWA's paid less and we can't compete at that salary...so don't quite understand how the Superior IPA is willing to throw in their hand to simply match FedEx (BTW-does that salary comparison include the total compensation package...cuz last time I checked FedEx has a 2% A plan while UPS has a 1% A plan. And no, the larger B plan you have isn't nearly as costly as our A plan)

So, from the outside looking in, what part of our new contract is concessionary. Even the 8 in 24 Day\night flying change is MORE restrictive than required by the FARs. Is it the elimination of hub turning hotel rooms if there's enough sleep rooms for every single pilot hub turning.

Every time I ask someone to point out their top 5 takes of what makes our new contract concessionary the subject changes.

IMO-the closest thing to being concessionary was maintaining the status quo of the A plan cap. But that also makes the 2006 contract a "concessionary" contract. And personally, I would have preferred the majority of any retirement dollars being directed to the B plan vice making the gap between the PBGCC and our pension dramatically bigger

And just me, but getting an immediate 11% bump in compensation while preferring a 12-15% bump doesn't mean it's a concessionary pay raise

DLax85

It wasn't/isn't concessionary in the short term

In the long term, the lack of additional, appropriate B fund bumps will be concessionary if the $260K A fund cap is maintained

The rest is/was just dry, milk toast

Given our current revenues, profits & manning, many of us were hoping for some butter...or at least a little jelly

TonyC

Only 5?

We HAD 8 in 24 for ALL flying, we conceded it for day flying in hopes that we'll get longer layovers for night flying. Don't hold your breath. But relax, if we have a Supplemental segment, 8-in-24 will apply.

Giving up hub turn hotel rooms does NOT guarantee "every single pilot hub turning" gets a sleep room. It only guarantees rooms for pilots with hub turns of greater than 2+30. I wonder who controls those schedules. How long is the typical hub turn in Paris?

Tel Aviv is now considered part of the European theater, so domestic rules will apply. Compound that with the loss of hub turn hotels and no 8-in-24 protection.

International Hotel in lieu of - GONE. Non-Intercontinental HILO might suffice in some situations, but the benefit lost was a benefit that cost The Company nothing. Nothing. We only lost it as punishment for some people supposedly abusing it.

Speaking of International, no more alert calls for ALL International departures. Canada? Mexico? Caribbean? Nope, sorry, Charlie. What did their cost analysis reveal on savings to The Company by not making a few dozen local phone calls?

I could go on, but you only asked for 5, and I don't want it to sound like I'm not moving on. But, one more minor point. We did not receive an immediate 11% increase in compensation. If you're talking about the B-Plan bump, that doesn't start until next year. Just as well, many of us have already reached IRS compensation limits and it would be immediately evident that it could be 8%, 28%, or 80% -- either way, it doesn't amount to a penny of additional compensation.






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R1200RT

Did you just seriously say that the B-fund bump doesn't get you anything if you’ve already reached “IRS compensation limits”? You clearly don’t understand how the IRS limits work. You get B-fund contributions until you reach the 401(a)(17) limit, which is $265K for both 2015 and 2016. The limit is indexed to inflation (CPI-U), but wasn’t increased for 2016 since the low level of inflation this year did not meet the legal threshold. So, even if you make more than $265k (which would mean more than 1000 credit hours per year before the new CBA), you get $2,650 extra for every percent increase in B-fund contribution. There are other limits in play, 415(c), but you’d have to have around a 20% b-fund before those limits would kick in. Also, all of those limits could be mitigated if we had cash over the cap provisions.

BTW, in 2006 we waited 12 months for our B-fund bump, so 2 months ain’t that bad.

Your thinking is flawed on many issues.

Commando

"And along the way have put millions of dollars into the hands of other ALPA and union pilots at American, United, and FedEx by NOT riding on our own jets to work."

I agree with you 100%! I would take less pay if we could have your Deadheading Policy. The problem is here at the IPA, it seems no gives a sh*t about sitting on a cold dark freighter for 10 hours. It's really kind of shocking why this mentality persist. I don't have an answer. I guess it's apathy. Which is weak.

Our EB and NC have given zero guidance towards stopping the company Deadheading. So I assume it's not a big deal to them. Sad. Which if we got rid of it, UPS would be forced to Hire since the major efficiency would be gone.

Hopefully the EB and NC will see the light on this QOL issue.

kwri10s

You completely missed. The IRS Defined Contribution Plans (annual additions limit) is $53,000 for 2016. That is the max cap. It does not matter how much you make, you cannot deposit more than $53,000. If you are over 50 then you are saving $24k in your 401k with makeup (pretax). You have left 29k that can be deposited into your account. Well really 28.5k when you subtract the company $500 IRA match. So regardless of how big the B fund percentage is, once you reach $28.5k you are finished. No more contributions for you.

Now if you will make enough to hit the cap, you will need to contribute less to your 401k so that your B fund amounts will go into your account. It's still extra money, but your taxable amount will increase by the AMT for that year since you will now lose some of the pretax that used to go into your 401k.

And for the black helicopters folks, the $53,000 is a legislative amount. If congress changes the max cap to $25,000 then that is now the cap amount. Max cap is the max cap. We do not get pay over cap, so any extra earned is not paid. You would have to not contribute to your 401k in order to receive as much B fund payout as possible. If congress eliminates that section of the tax law completely during "tax reform" as proposed by many running for President, then we get nothing.

R1200RT

“Sounds to me like someone else who didn’t read the TA and just believed the hype about how bad it was. You have all the right pieces to be correct, yet you are so wrong it’s almost unbelievable. The 6000 catch up contributions don’t count against the 53k limit, so after subtracting 18.5 from 53, you can add 34.5 in B-fund to your bucket. At 8/9 percent B-fund, the IRS cap would have to be 431/383k respectively. By the time they get that high, the 53k will be much higher too. And legislative risk is why our B-fund limit is now high-watermarked, so contributions will continue at that level even if congress does lower the limits…but you knew that already, Mr. (or Mrs.) Informed Pilot.”

TonyC

Why, thank you! I'll skip the matching personal insult and just get straight to the facts.




Yes, I did say something along the lines of, "the B-fund bump doesn't get you anything if you’ve already reached 'IRS compensation limits'.” In fact, that's the exact term I used.

You said, "You get B-fund contributions until you reach the 401(a)(17) limit, ..."

OK, so where do we differ? You see, 26 CFR 1.401(a)(17)-1 is titled "Limitation on annual compensation." Here's how that paragraph begins:

Furthermore, the $265K you mentioned comes from subparagraph (a)(3) Annual compensation limit for plan years beginning on or after January 1, 1994 It started there at $150K in 1994, and is adjusted annually by the Commissioner.


We said the same thing. I named the paragraph, you used its number.



Again, per the regulation, the amount is "adjusted for changes in the cost of living by the Commissioner ... in the same manner as under section 415(d)." 415(d) says nothing about CPI-U.




Once you have reached the compensation limit (or, as you like to say, the 401(a)(17) limit), you don't get squat. Some people have already reached that limit. You can raise the B-Plan contribution to 8% today and they won't get squat for the rest of the year. You can raise the B-Plan contribution to 18% today and they won't get squat for the rest of the year. You can raise the B-Plan contribution to 80% today, right now, effective immediately, and they will not get squat for the rest of the year.

Was I more clear that time?



And if I had ... oh, nevermind.






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Sideshow Bob

Dayum...somebody just got schooled.

fly2ski

So tired of people who don't know how we are paid. Up front and retirement. I guess it's just a "business decision to be ignorant". But hey, I got 10%����