Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Cargo
ATC speed assignment while on a Visual Approach >

ATC speed assignment while on a Visual Approach

Search
Notices
Cargo Part 121 cargo airlines

ATC speed assignment while on a Visual Approach

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-11-2007, 09:25 PM
  #11  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Overnitefr8's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 767 CA
Posts: 1,876
Default

Your ATM didn't suggest a correct terminology, or at least, what he preferred to hear?
Overnitefr8 is offline  
Old 02-12-2007, 05:49 AM
  #12  
Organizational Learning 
 
TonyC's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
Default

Originally Posted by MEM_ATC View Post

QUESTION: What are your rules (FAR or Company) regarding accepting a Visual Approach Clearance with a speed to maintain until a specified fix that is located on the ILS Final Approach Course?



Can someone give me something that I can hang my hat on? I'm looking for specific FAR references or company policy. The specific runway was 36 Right... NO Outer Marker... DME fix identified by the ILS 36R Localizer DME... no other radials or navaids associated with this fix.

Also... should I/we/ATC be thinking differently about glass cockpit aircraft as opposed to the B727 drivers on this subject?

Thanks,

MEM_ATC

First of all, we have no specific rules concerning speed assignements, other than they must allow us to conform to our stabilized approach criteria. At 1000 FT AGL we must be in the final landing configuration, with all engines operating at a power setting commensurate with the aircraft flight conditions, on a descent angle and rate appropriate for the type approach being flown, and at an airspeed no greater than Vref + 20 knots. If we can comply with the speed restriction and be stable at 1000 FT AGL, all is good.


Second, CFR § 91.129 "Operations in Class D airspace" requires that "each pilot of a large or turbine-powered airplane approaching to land on a runway served by an instrument landing system (ILS), if the airplane is ILS equipped, shall fly that airplane at an altitude at or above the glide slope between the outer marker (or point of interception of glide slope, if compliance with the applicable distance from cloud criteria requires interception closer in) and the middle marker;" [§ 91.129 (e)(2)]. In order for us to fly at or above the glideslope, we must have the ILS tuned. Therefore, referencing a fix defined by that NAVAID should be no great challenge.

(I'm glad I took the time to look that up, because I've always thought it was ironic that I'd be cleared for the visual, and then given a speed restriction tied to the Instrument Approach. It still doesn't make sense to get a speed restriction to SOCIT (the FAF on ILS RWY 27 is a RADAR fix), but the 18s and 36s all have DME.)


Third, (and the paranthetical above should be a good segue), where the fixes are defined by DME, there should be no difference between the glass cockpit airlanes and the non-glass cockpits. Both can accurately define the fixes. For NON-DME fixes, such as SOCIT on ILS RWY 27, the glass cockpit airplanes should have no problem defining the fix. The non-FMS equipped airplanes, on the other hand, will have only one way to find the fix. If they are on the glideslope as they pass the fix, their altitude should match the published crossing altitude. In other words, as I descend through 1800 FT MSL on the glideslope, I am "near" SOCIT. Of course, this also requires that I'm visual (which is presumed in this case) to determine that I'm not on a false glideslope.


Final point: Don't forget to include the DC-10 in the "Non-glass" category. The MD-11/10 and Airbus 300/310 have FMS, the DC-10 and 727 do not.




.



TonyC is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
palgia841
Career Questions
39
05-06-2013 09:33 AM
multipilot
Flight Schools and Training
7
02-26-2007 10:57 AM
BEWELCH
Regional
25
02-08-2007 06:26 AM
BEWELCH
Flight Schools and Training
9
12-03-2006 09:13 PM
AUS_ATC
Hangar Talk
13
04-15-2006 07:13 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices