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Old 06-25-2019 | 11:14 AM
  #11  
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Here is an example of the types of losses you can have with an 8 hour charter with a fuel stop in a jet.

Operating costs for the trip were: $21,800
The passengers were charged: $64,800
Expected profit: $43,000

Sounds good right? But during the fuel stop, one of our flight computers failed. That computer was a $32,000 component. Besides reducing our profit, now we had to worry about our passengers who paid a lot of money being stuck half way to their destination. If you paid $64,800 for a product that only got you half way there, how happy do you think you would be?

We ended up having to hire another charter company to get them the rest of the way. That means not only did we lose money on that trip, but our passengers got there late and weren't happy with us. If we were a small company operating in the same area, we would not have been able to afford to lose that customer.
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Old 06-25-2019 | 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Deepblue
Ah, I have read about the type ratings. Does that apply to all aircraft? Or mainly more complex planes such as multi engine and turbine powered aircraft?
Type ratings are required if the airplane has jet engines or if the airplane is approved for taking off at a weight above 12,500 pounds or if the FAA thinks that type of airplane requires special training.

You could look up "Federal Aviation Regulations part 135" to see what you would be getting into.
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Old 06-26-2019 | 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Twin Wasp
Type ratings are required if the airplane has jet engines or if the airplane is approved for taking off at a weight above 12,500 pounds or if the FAA thinks that type of airplane requires special training.

You could look up "Federal Aviation Regulations part 135" to see what you would be getting into.
Thank you for answering my question Twin Wasp. That was what I was looking for. I appreciate everyone's input.

Hear me out, I am just bouncing around ideas to get an idea of whats possible. If I were to own a Saratoga or Lance on my own for pleasure, but I wanted to start a Part 135 Operation using my plane, would one of those be an aircraft suitable to charter? Mainly flying the Keys, Bahamas and South Florida.
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Old 06-26-2019 | 06:28 AM
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FAA.gov and in more detail the FAA 8900 has all your answers. The type of airplanes your considering do not have the revenue potential other than offsetting the cost of ownership, so you’ll still need to cut grass for food on the table and a roof over your head.
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Old 06-26-2019 | 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Deepblue
Thank you for answering my question Twin Wasp. That was what I was looking for. I appreciate everyone's input.

Hear me out, I am just bouncing around ideas to get an idea of whats possible. If I were to own a Saratoga or Lance on my own for pleasure, but I wanted to start a Part 135 Operation using my plane, would one of those be an aircraft suitable to charter? Mainly flying the Keys, Bahamas and South Florida.
Many folks with sufficient wealth to charter aircraft have life insurance policies prohibiting flight on single engine airplanes.
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Old 06-26-2019 | 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine
Figuring out type ratings and even getting one is the easiest part of starting a charter company. If you have not figured out the requirements for a type rating, odds are you will not be able to start a charter company. Don't take it as an insult. You simply don't know what you don't know. It is like someone saying, "I want to be a mutual fund manager, but first can someone tell me what a stock is?"

Most charter companies are started by several people with decades of industry experience. Even with that, most fail. The upfront costs are huge, the overhead is huge (insurance, training, documentation, maintenance, etc.), and the profits margin is narrow and erratic. Anyone starting a business will make mistakes especially if they are new to the industry.

Mistakes in aviation are EXPENSIVE. You cannot afford to learn these mistakes unless you are already extremely wealthy. Since you probably can't afford to learn these mistakes by making them yourself, you will need to hire others to help you. By the time you hire enough people to make up for you lack of experience/knowledge, there will be no point in you even being involved. Assuming you have money to burn and can afford to hire others to help you, you will still be a small operator. Odds are your intended market will already have larger charter companies that will drive you out of business due to economies of scale. If there aren't any charter operators in the area you want to operate out of, then that probably indicates a lack of customers that can actually afford a charter company.
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This is your answer. Like it or not.
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Old 06-26-2019 | 06:34 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Cujo665
Many folks with sufficient wealth to charter aircraft have life insurance policies prohibiting flight on single engine airplanes.
The carveout is single PISTON engines. Turbines are fine. How else would they get to St Barth?
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Old 06-26-2019 | 09:41 AM
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There is no money in chartering small aircraft. No super wealthy people are going to go tooling around in an old piston plane over the water. They are either going to fly on a commercial airline or perhaps a light jet. The only clientele that might be interested in your services are the ones who move product from the jungles of South America.

The secret is no charter aircraft make money. You can find numerous planes that charter for direct operating cost or less. This means zero profit.

So how do these companies stay in business? They do not own aircraft. They are management companies who find aircraft owners to place aircraft on their charter certificate. They also typically have a repair station certificate (many start out this way and later add a charter certificate) so they can make money on the maintenance.

Charter companies take a percentage of the hourly charter (10-20%) no matter if the trip is profitable or not. The aircraft owner collects the rest of the revenue, less expenses. The charter company then charges a monthly "management fee" and proceeds to nickle-and-dime for everything under the sun. The aircraft owner is lucky to break even or have a slight loss in any given year. Most lose a lot of money on paper. They reap the tax deductions which can be a lot of money for a multi million dollar jet. This is the only way it makes sense.

As someone else mentioned, most wealthy individuals who use such services carry large life insurance polices which prohibit them from flying in a single engine aircraft. They will also require you to have liability policies for $100 million and up.

South Florida is notorious for sketchy charter companies that come and go.
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Old 06-28-2019 | 08:58 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by dera
The carveout is single PISTON engines. Turbines are fine. How else would they get to St Barth?
Not true. Many moons ago worked flying a privately owned cheyanne. Used to haul the owner and his very high level friends around the northeast mostly. Some DC and OH stuff too. We’re talking CEO, VP’s of Globally recognized corporations as well as his DC political friends. He replaced the cheyanne with a brand new TBM7. Most of those folks could no longer accept the free flight. That said, it is possible newer policies are allowing it, but many who have had whole life a long time haven’t received any new terms.
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Old 06-28-2019 | 01:09 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by CFI Guy
There is no money in chartering small aircraft. No super wealthy people are going to go tooling around in an old piston plane over the water. They are either going to fly on a commercial airline or perhaps a light jet. The only clientele that might be interested in your services are the ones who move product from the jungles of South America.

The secret is no charter aircraft make money. You can find numerous planes that charter for direct operating cost or less. This means zero profit.

So how do these companies stay in business? They do not own aircraft. They are management companies who find aircraft owners to place aircraft on their charter certificate. They also typically have a repair station certificate (many start out this way and later add a charter certificate) so they can make money on the maintenance.

Charter companies take a percentage of the hourly charter (10-20%) no matter if the trip is profitable or not. The aircraft owner collects the rest of the revenue, less expenses. The charter company then charges a monthly "management fee" and proceeds to nickle-and-dime for everything under the sun. The aircraft owner is lucky to break even or have a slight loss in any given year. Most lose a lot of money on paper. They reap the tax deductions which can be a lot of money for a multi million dollar jet. This is the only way it makes sense.

As someone else mentioned, most wealthy individuals who use such services carry large life insurance polices which prohibit them from flying in a single engine aircraft. They will also require you to have liability policies for $100 million and up.

South Florida is notorious for sketchy charter companies that come and go.
This is great information. For the original poster, if you are still interested depending upon your background I recommend getting a job working for a charter company on the operations/management side of the house. That will be an education on the industry in and of itself, and after a year or two of that you will definitely know if you want to go out on your own.

Some places may make you sign a non-compete clause also, but so you may have to switch states or bide your time before you jump into the pool yourself.

Good Luck.
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