Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Pilot Lounge > Aviation Law
Scheduled flights by a On Demand Charter Co. >

Scheduled flights by a On Demand Charter Co.

Search
Notices
Aviation Law Legal issues, FARs, and questions

Scheduled flights by a On Demand Charter Co.

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 07-08-2013, 10:51 AM
  #1  
Line Holder
Thread Starter
 
wjl408's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Director of Operations CE-750 Captain
Posts: 65
Default Scheduled flights by a On Demand Charter Co.

I just started to work for a different Part 135 on demand charter company and apparently they feel that a company other than the charter company can sell tickets and charter the flight with the charter company. I explained that the "other company" had to have the authority to do so such as being a DOT Part 380 operator with economic authority to sell tickets and charter flights from Part 135 companies. I know as a Part 135 on demand we can fly less than 5 round trips scheduled and remain within the realms of our certificate. I need to find something in writing that states that what they are attempting to do is not legal and is libel to get them in trouble. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
wjl408 is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 11:05 AM
  #2  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,275
Default

Contact an aviation lawyer or search the FAA website for published legal opinions...odds are that this question or similar has come up, and the FAA counsel has rendered an opinion in writing.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 07:33 PM
  #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 468
Default Scheduled flights by a On Demand Charter Co.

Part 135 scheduled operations are just that...scheduled. They operate scheduled operations as part 135. See Surf Air and others or look up part 135 regs
SkylineAviation is offline  
Old 07-08-2013, 07:35 PM
  #4  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 468
Default Scheduled flights by a On Demand Charter Co.

Just because it's 135 does not mean "on demand". Part 135 is quite diverse.
SkylineAviation is offline  
Old 07-09-2013, 02:52 AM
  #5  
Line Holder
Thread Starter
 
wjl408's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Director of Operations CE-750 Captain
Posts: 65
Default

Skyline I understand that. See my post 5 or less scheduled trips are legal, to do more you have to be a 135 commuter or work with a DOT 380 operator which sell the seats then charters your company to do the flight ie. Charter. You can't just have Joe Blow sell your tickets then charter your company to do the flights. Their contention is if Joe Blow sells the tickets and charter us to do the flight we can exceed the 4 round trip restriction. If that were the case why would anybody bother becoming a 135 commuter or applying for a DOT 380. I would like to find something in writing to show them this is not legal.
wjl408 is offline  
Old 07-09-2013, 05:38 AM
  #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 826
Default

I join rickair's recommendation to have them consult with an aviation attorney. Whether aviation or any other type of business, especially a regulated business, part of the cost of operations should be a compliance consultation of some sort.

That said, for general information, it sounds like you have a general handle on the potential applicability of Parts 380 and 298. Here's a 2011 Chief Counsel interpretation that while it may or may not be directly applicable to your specific situation, discusses some of the considerations (check the footnotes):

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf
NoyGonnaDoIt is offline  
Old 07-09-2013, 06:24 AM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
JamesNoBrakes's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,982
Default

There may be an operational control issue there as well. Sounds like they are setting themselves up for something bad.
JamesNoBrakes is offline  
Old 07-25-2013, 01:52 PM
  #8  
Line Holder
Thread Starter
 
wjl408's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Director of Operations CE-750 Captain
Posts: 65
Default

Originally Posted by wjl408 View Post
I just started to work for a different Part 135 on demand charter company and apparently they feel that a company other than the charter company can sell tickets and charter the flight with the charter company. I explained that the "other company" had to have the authority to do so such as being a DOT Part 380 operator with economic authority to sell tickets and charter flights from Part 135 companies. I know as a Part 135 on demand we can fly less than 5 round trips scheduled and remain within the realms of our certificate. I need to find something in writing that states that what they are attempting to do is not legal and is libel to get them in trouble. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Okay, I have the answer. A part 135 on demand operator can do less than 5 scheduled flight within a 7 day period selling seats, posting a schedule, departure times, destinations. Our POI would not commit and referred me to Atlanta legal and they directed me to the attorney that handles the South Florida FSDO matters and he said no problem but when I asked for something in writing the answer was no way. The only way to have anything in writing was to have him submit it to Washington and then the ruling would be published on their web site. Seems no one from the FAA will commit to answering any reg questions.
wjl408 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
xfzz
Fractional
15
10-27-2009 05:37 PM
RockBottom
Major
0
07-12-2005 11:15 AM
Freighter Captain
Major
2
06-10-2005 11:32 PM
captain_drew
Cargo
1
04-01-2005 04:36 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices