You can't just look at the hourly rate and apply it to the minimum guarantee, without looking at the entire contract and how credits are acquired. I can on good faith tell you not a single 767 captain made less than $120,000, and the average was in the $140's, highs in the $160's. (Not counting per diem)

You have to acknowledge a few things when you look at our contract.

1. When this current contract was negotiated and ratified, we had no wide bodies, so while it's lower than we'd like to be, it was ahead of many of our peer airlines flying narrow bodies.

2. Yes, we are ALPA, and proud to be so, but this contract is still only our second one, and is due to be amended March of next year, with negotiations set to start at the end of this month.

3. Ryan used to be a bottom feeder airline, paying FAR substandard rates, salaried no less. In this current contract, over the 4 years, we will have advanced pay and benefits a total of nearly 55%, lowered the max number of days worked per year by 26, increased vacation, sick days, and company 401K contribution. We also restored a furlough and recall system that respects company wide seniority, one of the highest international per diem rates, and get hotels and per diem everywhere we go, including our base. So while you ask why things haven't changed in the last decade for us, shows you really know nothing about where we came from, or how far we've come. I wouldn't necessarily expect you to, so I thought I'd let you in on a bit of our history, and how we got where we are.

BTW, you want to compare 1st year pay? Let's do that.

Delta $56 1st year, 65 hour guarantee=$43,680
United $33 1st year, 70 hour guarantee=$27,720
American $35 1st year, 64 hour guarantee=$26,880
Ryan $65 1st year, 61 hour guarantee (28 day pay period)=$51,545

Sure, you have a better future at a Legacy carrier, or then again, maybe you don't. Not many of my friends and coworkers who have left for these places are better off than when they left Ryan. Most have endured multiple furloughs, extensive pay cuts, and lengthy times to upgrade. I'm certainly not advocating Ryan as a career job yet, but it's paid the bills, has only gotten better over the last few years, and with any luck, the next contract will get it closer to something you can make a career out of.

No, David Ray was abruptly terminated in 2005 or 2006 if memory serves.

Danny Looney left in 1999 or 2000, again if I recall. Last I heard, he was still at Sky King, in some capacity.


The longest block they put on your bid line is 16 days consecutive, travel inclusive. But that entire time must be spent internationally, with tickets to and from home.

11 days consecutive is the max you can have on your line if they want you to do any domestic duty. We are not home based, but better than 50% of the time you will receive travel from home to your flight assignment. I'd say less than 20% live in RFD or within the reserve call out distance to RFD, the rest are all commuters.

Our 767 lines usually consist of 1/3 of the lines being essentially a week on/week off, another 1/3 are 9 days on/10 days off, and the last 1/3 have a 16 day block in them, generally with a long block of days off in the other half of the bid. So you can kind of pick the type of line you want, if your seniority allows it. The maximum number of days on a line can have is 28 out of 56 day bid periods. As an example, this bid, my line is built to nearly 30 hours over guarantee and has 36 days off out of 56.

They do have the option to extend you up to 3 days, it's at 130%, or 150% if it's your second, or beyond, extension in a bid period, and all that time is above guarantee whether you've met the guarantee or not. Extensions are not uncommon, but not regular either. I've only been extended 1 time in the last 18 months that I can recall.

Btw DL is 70 hours guaranteed on reserve per month, not 65. If you are a line holder you can bid down to the minimum, but most lines hit the average line value, at least 72 hours or higher, unless you bid LOW.

So do you think the A330 will go senior? What type of trips would those planes do? Why would Ryan go for a totally new airplane type rather than stick with more 767s?

That was kind of my point, just looking at two simple numbers, the hourly rate and the guarantee, doesn't come close to telling the whole story.

As for the 330, it will go somewhat senior, at least on the Captain side, though we do have some people still on a 3 year seat lock following the loss of our 737's and their transition to the 767. On the copilot side, it's hard to say, but if I had to guess, I'd say it won't go nearly as senior, relatively, as is it will for Captains. This is all just a guess, we'll know on the 26th.

And, we are getting a new A/C type to comply with some recent changes to size requirements for DOD flying.

is that you penske??

I saw Ryan Int'l leased A-330s from VirginAtlantic; how many, and for how long?

Nope, if memory serves, he left Ryan 4 or 5 years ago.

So far just 1, and it's either an 18 or 24 month lease initially, not sure which. There was talk of buying an older -200 soon, but only time will tell. The VA -300 just showed up last night, so the focus is on getting it added to the certificate and proving runs done, after that they can look towards what to do next. They just decided to return a 767 to the lessor, which will furlough 22 guys. It caught us all completely off guard, so we are certainly hopeful they will change their minds on that, or seek out more 330's. Anything that employs pilots is fine with me!

Eric, why won't they let 767 guys displaced bid the A-330??? Doesn't your CBA allow it, or is it furlough-by-equipment?

Sorry, didn't mean to imply the 767 guys are the one to be furloughed. Years ago we used to furlough by type, but in our current CBA we were able to fix that. Most of the 767 guys will transition to the MD-80, a couple to the A330, and most that will go to the street are the most junior guys, again, mostly off the -80. Like I said, we are hopeful something will happen to prevent that from happening. At least they won't be let go until their replacements are trained, and that shouldn't start happening until January and later. It's not much, but at least gets them through the holidays with a pay check.

Any update at Ryan?

Did they furlough? Just last year I saw ads for MD80 FOs?

Will they be hiring for the new A330 equipment?