Any benefits to flying the 767 at Atlas?
 

Is there any benefit to flying the 767 vs 744 to counter balance the 767 2nd and 3rd year pay scale?

Having a seniority number?

Not being furloughed?

Not being at the job you're trying to leave?

Would I down bid? Probably not.

Jerryspringer

Not being furloughed?

Not sure if I understand that one?

For now, you're going to the 767 if you get the call.

If you get hired soon, you would have the benefit of greater relative seniority than you would on the 747, but that depends on where the Classic pilots go. I assume they would all want to stay on the 747, but haven't seen any kind of bid award yet. A few might want to be top of the list as a 767 FO, despite the loss of pay, or maybe some will be forced onto the 767 instead of sitting at home for months waiting for an open class date. That's up to the company, I would guess.

How much of an advantage is it to be more senior? Hard to say since I haven't flown the line yet. Obviously good for days off/vacation. I don't know how often their schedules get changed, but the mantra here is if you're flexible, you're too rigid. 767 destinations will be more limited, but I think the international stuff will be a blast. You also have the option (or maybe you'll get stuck with it) of flying the 767 freighter for DHL. You won't go international, and i've heard (HEARD, being the operative word) it's a week on/week off type deal, so you may credit a bit less than a guy who's out 17 days, plus the whole gateway travel tax deal.

On the plus side, it's only a lower pay rate for two years, should you choose to bid 747 FO after the 3-year seat lock. A good chunk of pilots are to set to retire in 2013, and I believe half the pilot group retires by 2020.

... hired into the 76 at Atlas versus being a furloughed pilot from another airline who is currently on the street...


My guess is that since there are currently only two (one more coming ... maybe?) 767-300's doing pax charter work - mostly for the military - those will be the only ones doing the overseas international flying. The 5 DHL (ex-ABX) 767-200's will probably be doing core product flights domestically (or at least North America i.e. Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico, etc.) with nightly hub turns through CVG.

Other than Jerry and captainv's points, maybe the only other 767 advantages over the 747 would be avoiding 8 to 15 hour legs, avoiding 4 to 8 hour time zone changes, and avoiding places you might not want to go like the "Stans", Africa, etc.

Get on the property, cope with a couple of years on the "light twin" and then bid over if you want. Personally, I wouldn't think twice about which airplane I ended up on as long as I got on the seniority list.

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Mostly true, DC8.

However, the 767 is already scheduled to go to a "Stan" country several times this month. And something you guys on the 744 don't do...a layover in a "Stan" country!!

The other item is stage length...there are flights scheduled from Europe to the Pacific Northwest, and the LAX area. We are also in the hunt for Pacific ETOPS approval, so those HNL, UAM, etc layovers are not just 744 territory!!

You are absolutely right about getting on the seniority list...get the number, put up with the 767 (!!) and bid out of it when you can. Don't get bogged down in airplane assignments if you really want the job, and the Atlas lifestyle (in the long term) is something you can live with. That is the more critical question to ask yourself...

Cool. Well, cool depending on which "Stan" you're talking about ...

Wow! Our little light twin is all growed up :D I guess that -300 as longer legs than I thought!! Thank goodness for bunkrooms, eh? :p

A big thanks to all that have offered insight to Atlas, its a big help in making the decision.

Another View:
Its not necessarily the equipment candidates are trying to figure out, its the earning potential, could I possibly be stuck making 50 hour guarantee (no duty rig), hit with tax liabilities such as travel and hotel(ouch) or will I have options to make duty rig. I for one will be taking a fairly large pay hit today for a better future tomorrow (take two steps backwards to make one step forward)
Its a difficult decision when you are supporting a family, saving for college and retirement,
And your not a spring Chicken anymore?

Lots of guys in my class took that leap. More than a few were doing really, really well as RJ captains but made the switch. I was an RJ FO for almost a decade, so it'll likely be a raise for me.

Plan on $1600/mo for the first 4 months when you run the numbers. training is 2 months, 747 guys typically have a month off before OE, flight pay kicks in when you complete OE.

Somebody posted the daily rig a while back, but basically if you're out 17 days, you will far exceed guarantee. only way to reduce that is to be in training, on vacation or on home reserve. unless OE is backlogged like the 767 is currently, i don't think you'll see many 50-hour months after you get on line. as for base reserve, you'll get the daily rig but get the tax hit for the days in base. depends on your base and what the company paid for your ticket. Highest airfares in the nation? HSV and CVG. maybe one of the 747 guys can chime in on how often you get base reserve. the new guys I know on the 747 keep pretty busy.

Trying to figure out what you'll make on the 767 is difficult until we get going. No one really knows. But i suspect the 767 freighter would probably be the worst case - if the schedule is week on/week off you may not be away 17 days and you'd always be beginning/ending in CVG and get the tax hit. If you were JFK based on the -300ER, you may not see JFK very much as the airplane may never be there. if they buy you a ticket to anywhere besides your crew base - no tax hit.

What is the projected hiring over the next year (plus)? Will Atlas be interviewing any time soon?

Think of it this way...take one step back, and two steps forward. I think the future potential at Atlas is at least as good as most of the legacy carriers. And the growth potential exceeds that of most legacy carriers...

Most career decisions need to be made with the long term benefits, rather than what you'll get in the short to medium term. I do however understand the realities of paying bills, saving for college, and retirement...

Good luck with your decision...

Don't it make you proud to see it all growed up?:D

But no bunk room on the 767-300s for our fleet...several lie-flat (think of the EK business-class seat, not one of the US carriers!!) in the back of the aircraft. They are designated Flight Crew (pilots) rest areas...

I wish. Unless something's changed since I was in school, it's not a lie-flat. I don't think it fit. It's also conveniently located near the aft lav.

:mad:

Damn, I knew I would miss the 400!! It is the small things in life that count, right? :p

The easiest job at Atlas is the 744 FO without a doubt...dozing for $$$ is a beautiful thing. Remind me, why I gave that up...for two less engines, no bunks, and now I have to ask for permission from the cabin crew to go to the lav.:rolleyes:

I took a 50% pay hit to come over and a 92% seniority hit. I also went to the lower paying of the 2 sides, and broke guarantee 3 out of 48 mos. prior to the new CBA, so I was hauling in about what you will on the 76.

I don't regret my decision yet.

A few notes:
As you know, training is ~2 mos, and say you're on training pay for 4 (redonkulous, but it is what it is), that's only 8 mos on 50 hrs. Of the dozen or so FNGs I know, 0 made 50 hr mos once they got online. If the company gets smart and starts budgeting, that means you'll be out only 10 days a month. You can't even position and pick up a plane in that time. 13 days out, you're at 62 hours. 17 days out and you're at ~77 hrs (knock a day off of rig due to not starting and ending at 00Z the first and last day).

The BS tax liabilities: Only if you touch your base and get hotels. However this battle is being taken on right now.

The 401k options are good, and my Financial Planner is impressed with the array of selections.

Of course, if you're not in a position to fit the budget first year, that is a huge factor as well.

Good luck.

.................

I believe I saw 2 Atlas 767's in IAH today, curious? HMMMM........

Anyone have INTEL?

You did the move because now you get to fly with your favorite captain every flight!!

Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner!!

Never turn down a seniority number, and never turn down a "command" (as the Brits say).

Personally, I didn't have a favorite team this year, but thought it was a darn good game to watch...


From Atlas:

"Atlas Air, whose airline call sign is "Giant," carried more than 700 New York Giants fans round trip from Newark, New Jersey to Indianapolis, Indiana over the weekend to cheer on "Big Blue's" victory over the New England Patriots at Super Bowl XLVI. Atlas operated two of its seven passenger aircraft, a Boeing 747-400 (GT8442) and a Boeing 767-300ER (GT8465) for the charter operator, Worldwide Charters International, Inc. By all estimations, the trip was a success—including the final score of 21-17.

"We're thrilled that the Giants won and that we were able to carry their most loyal fans to and from the Super Bowl. Our entire team – Sales, Operations, Legal and others worked very hard to make this a successful mission," said John Dietrich, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer.

Richard Broekman, Senior Director of Commercial Development and Revenue Management, agreed. "It's a testimony to what Atlas Air is capable of on the passenger side," he said. "Just like the Giants, it takes an excellent team to win!"

Emily Duncan of Worldwide Charters International, Inc., who was the charter broker, said, "Our client gave me glowing reports of the service and the experience. It's the best review and feedback I've had on a charter with them."

"It was wonderful to have the fans as our guests," said James Parascandola, Senior Director, Ground Support Services. Added David Burgett, Director of Inflight Services, "We couldn't help but get caught up in the excitement of our guests. Their enthusiasm was so contagious—and it was a thrill to have them onboard!"

The Super Bowl is the National Football League's biggest night of the year, and each year is among the most watched television programs in the United States."

How are the 76 lines looking destination wise? Are they a mix of DHL domestic and overseas? Does the 17 days on apply like the 74?

Thanks

The seventeen days applies to everyone. It's way too early to figure out how the Seven Six schedules will play out. Pulled up the Feb bid package and they had five lines total. It was DHL or JFK reserve. I keep hearing it's going to start raining Seven Sixs but right now they're just trying to get people through OE.

Once it gets established, figure the JFK base is international AMC flying (North Atlantic only, so far) and the CVG base will be pure DHL - mostly domestic with maybe some Canada/Mexico destinations. For now, though, they'll put us on both to get us our OE.

17 days applies, but I've heard CVG DHL flight might be more of a week on/week off type deal, and thus less rig pay.

Laxrox,

There is some really good information on this forum on "ATLAS Hiring". I, for one, can attest to its' accuracy and candor as being spot on. It takes a while to read through it all but it is time well spent if you are at all interested. I interviewed with Atlas in early Feb and am still waiting for the results like several others who read and/or post regularly on here.

What sort of tax hit is it you are talking about?

Still haven't flown the line yet (chime in to correct any errors), but here's how I understand it:
Gateway travel is taxable. That is, say you're based in JFK. Anytime the company flies you from your home airport-JFK to start a trip, or from JFK-home to end a trip, the price the company paid for that ticket is considered compensation by the IRS, and Atlas will automatically deduct the taxes from your paycheck. Same goes for your paid hotel room while in your crew base.

If the company decides to airline you somewhere besides your crew base, you don't pay the tax. As far as the 767 goes, we may not see JFK much, if at all, whereas DHL flying begins/ends in CVG.

Worst case, say you flew to your crew base and sat base reserve in your hotel room for the entire 17 days and flew home. You'd pay tax on the airfare and the entire hotel stay. But keep in mind, with the new daily rig, you'd credit a lot more than sitting 17 days on home reserve and just making guarantee.

Another factor is the ticket price. HSV and CVG are typically some of the highest airfares in the nation. I don't see ANC being cheap, either, but IAH, MIA and JFK would probably be a less.

I'm sure there are a million other factors/possibilities, but for now, it is what it is.

CaptainV got most of it. If at the end of a trip and the company flys you home without you getting legal rest the ticket isn't taxed. At some bases almost all the trips start in base, about half the 74 trips in JFK start with a deadhead to the plane.

I believe CVG is a 76 base.

767 Flying
 

Maybe I missed it but when does the 767-200 flying start for DHL out of CVG? Will the -200s be some of ABX's older birds sitting in ILN right now or will they be from a different source?

Atlas isn't replacing ABX or these routes are they; these are in addition to right?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm just trying catch up :cool:

Hi NCR,

We start flying the DHL flights later this month...first airplane was delayed from last month, but we are to take delivery of it next week. And the second tail comes to us basically on schedule late in March also.

Sorry, but I don't know the details of the flying ABX used to do or if we are replacing any of their routes...

We got some DHL CVG flying for the -8s right after we lost BAX but that went away really quickly. Wondering if ASTAR is finally going to get the boot with this as well.

Just can't compete with the -8 when it compares to the 767.

It's better than flying anything at VX.

Just so I'm understanding this correctly. Let's say I'm in based in CVG but live in New Jersey. My trip starts and ends in CVG. Avoiding imputed income on the front end is pretty much unavoidable due to the fact that I absolutely must gateway and stay at a hotel in CVG to be rested for my trip, correct?

Now on the back half, if I land in CVG, waive rest and elect to travel home to NJ soon after I land in CVG, I avoid the imputed income for everything on the back half?,,,,including the plane ticket? Is this right?

If so, how soon do I have to depart CVG to avoid being taxed on the ticket?

The place to get the answer is your Stewards, not here.

-200 Flying
 

Saw the DHL notes today and it shows N650GT is going to sub tonight on CVG-PHX-SAN r/t. Was this morning/tonight the first time the -200 has been used by Atlas?

Yes...last night was the inaugural service.

What does the plane look like? It was an old ABX/DHL plane; still in those colors? Did they get the IS&S panels?

No idea what the airplane looks like...sorry.

DHL colors. What are IS&S panels?

Enter Content

From the IS&S website:

"Innovative Solutions & Support's Integrated Primary Flight and Navigation Display System is TSO Approved for 757/767. This state-of-the-art, sunlight readable display offers an exceptional cross-cockpit viewing angle. Each IS&S Flat Panel Display System (3 part numbers) provides a reduction in LRU's and components. Its uniform graphics symbology permits cross-platform pilot certification. Retrofits are easily accomplished with minimal changes to existing aircraft wiring. The system requires no active cooling and significantly reduces power consumption and weight."



I think maybe Airborne's maintenance department (which was shut down a few years ago and resurrected with slave wages for the old employees that were rehired under the new name "Airborne Maintenance & Engineering Services, Inc. - AMES) installs these flat panel systems at ILN...)

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