what would the story look like for a new hire FO that wanted to stay at IAD for the long run/past upgrade?

 

You could probably get IAD as an FO, if not immediately, then shortly after training. The issue is you'll be on reserve longer than usual there, not only because we have a lot of extra FOs at the moment (a problem soon to be corrected following lots of upgrades) but because it's a small base relative to EWR and not growing significantly. Naturally we have a lot of higher seniority people in IAD so you'll be fighting all those people for a slot.

That said, progression here is insanely quick, and will continue to be unless we get a contract that rivals Republic or Endeavor and people really want to come here and stay here. C5 is presently an "up and out" airline because of QOL issues.

So bottom line -- try your luck, but if your long term plan is to stay in the regionals and you want DC, try Republic. They have a base in DCA and if memory serves it's one of their four most junior bases so it's within reach for a new hire. Republic also has one of the better contracts in the industry and flies airplanes that aren't ancient and cause every passenger to make snide comments like "this plane is smaller than my walk-in closet". Yea, that happened last week.

 

Anyone have a rough idea how many DECs (or near entry ones) we plan on hiring this year?

How about a timeframe for FO hiring again?

 

Last I heard is they were hoping slow it down for DEC by March with all upgrades but we are losing people. So I doubt it stops at all rest of year to be honest. The FO situation is a mess from what I heard from some people who just went through and instructors. Some new FOs are having to do PCs with not even had started IOE. Time from completing type ride to completion of IOE is 5 months or longer for some. Supposedly we are cranking up FO hiring in February/March and on, but not sure how the company is going to handle all this.

 

I have that stepping stone mentality as it is, I’ve heard it’s best to pick a regional you wouldn’t mind getting stuck at if the economy goes sour or something like that. However, I’ve also been told the biggest QOL factor is living in base, and IAD makes it very possible, living an hour and change away. DCA? Not so much since I grew up in nova and know where we’re located now simply wouldn’t work without considerable lead time. Moving isn’t much an option for me because the debt I’ve racked up in training makes it so moving in with dad and substituting sizable loan payments for rent makes sense, and Dulles allows that.

on that note, it’s between Mesa and C5 for me. AW is out, and although the outfits out of DCA are appealing, I don’t want have to make it work over sucking it up at an IAD carrier for however long it takes to move on. Mesa guys say come here. Some C5 guys say go to mesa. I’ve heard gripes and praises from both sides of the fence, and the pay is more or less similar I think. So it’s kinda a tough choice, both say the crews are great, management could be better, and that it gets old after year three, but I think that’s the regional standard haha
although those 20 175’s seem sweet, but enter the “don’t chase shiny jet” assertion and get stuck picking between two regionals that both have the potential to be great entry level careers

 

If Mesa can guarantee IAD and their reserve time is less than 6 months I would go with them.

Commutair have growing pains right now which they are dealing with. Also, I would prefer the 175 now as 145s are getting old.

 

If that is your choice, I'd say go to C5.

I considered Mesa briefly before going to C5 because I wanted to continue flying the 175 after Republic and Mesa was the only other carrier within reasonable commuting distance that had that option. But at that time I heard stories of 6+ month training delays and bad training experiences on the 175, and after having a bad experience at Republic I was in no mood for a repeat. At the end of the day I concluded that I'd get the same turbojet experience at C5 flying the 145 and get my preferred EWR base option pretty much guaranteed so it was a no-brainer. Remember: if the only choice is commute vs. live in base, it's live-in-base ALWAYS.

Mesa also has a stigma in this industry, deserved or not. That is not to slight the crews or suggest that Mesa guys can't move on (all but the worst offenders can and do) but I think it's fair to say that Mesa will hire almost anyone, whereas C5 has been a bit more selective, even a couple years ago when they were practically begging people to come here, and it's that stigma that may generate increased scrutiny when you try to move on.

C5 is also partially owned by UA, and while that doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot from the perspective of the pilots in the day-to-day, it should mean greater stability over the long haul. UA is the only carrier that still has eight partners. Not sure why that is, but I do see them reducing the number of partners eventually. The new 175 deal with Mesa guarantees they'll be a part of the mix for the next few years, but who knows after that.

In terms of "soft" qualities...one huge perk of C5 is the relatively small size of the company. While we're definitely growing we are still small enough that you'll get to know people, see them on the line frequently, and make friends. As I have worked in predominantly small companies my entire career I consider this a huge perk.

The upside to Mesa, from the little I've deadheaded on them, is that whoever hires the flight attendants defines cute the same way I do. Though I shouldn't have to tell you this means absolutely nothing from a career perspective, the scenery is definitely nicer at Mesa. The mountain views on their predominantly western route structure are also breathtaking.

 

Thank you for that chunk of perspective! People on the Mesa forum say the only thing Mesa leads the industry in is FAs and I think that's hilarious, in a good way.

I know C5 is an aviate partner as well, and UA has a good stake in the company as well, so I'm curious if that 40-something % ownership grants you guys any leeway in the grand scheme of things? I'm finishing my last semester at Humpty Diddle and I've been waiting on more Aviate news because obviously scoring that CJO, before you're even at your regional, would make Charlie jealous of YOUR golden ticket, but on the same coin the speculation about aviate is that it is kinda shammy and just meant to staff the regionals. I mean to a point its all just talk, but do you guys think C5 gives you a leg up if you really want to end up at UAL? Sure, qualified candidates who present themselves as true professionals and make the cut will be fine regardless of where their first taste of 121 came from but how far does being UAX boost you, if any?

 

Aside from the chance to interview with United, there is no advantage to Aviate and UA does not give any preferential hiring to partner companies. In fact, the major downside to Aviate is that it's one-and-done. Fail the interview and UA will never give you another chance, through Aviate or off-the-street.

Do not go to any UA partner regional for Aviate. There was some advantage to the program it replaced (known as the CPP) as compared to off-the-street hires, in that the entire interview was a 45 minute session of "story time". Now, however, everyone in Aviate does the same interview as an off-the-street hire.

The success rate for Aviate is reportedly around 30-35%. That's either working exactly as planned or is failing miserably at its task -- I don't know which, but I'm sure someone in UA does. My guess is, as most people on the thread covering this subject have surmised, that Aviate is nothing more than a recruiting tool designed to staff the regionals -- not UA per se. I've flown with my share of guys who have passed and failed the Aviate interview and it's clear they're leaving some very good people on the table, so I'd call that a "fail", regardless of the intent of the program.

Since you're still in school, my advice is to keep doing your research, as this industry can turn on a dime. The "preferred" regionals of today may very well change in as little as six months so I wouldn't lock myself into any particular program or regional at this time. Just keep your eye to the sky, so to speak, and apply to the most appropriate place(s) when you're ready.

 

This right here. Try to pick one that is becoming the preferred not the current preferred. Being at the front is the difference of 1 month of reserve and fast upgrade vs 6 months of reserve with hire dates only a few classes apart. This is a very fickle industry that changes monthly.

C5 is a good place to learn and build experience. IAD is a small base but with good movement on the FO side.




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