Compass 4 year degree
03-30-2010 | 03:31 PM
#91
Underboob King
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,412
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From: Guppy Commander
Again... what's with the assumptions? I don't want to fly for a major, nor do I fly for a major, and by choosing not to finish college and, instead, gaining valuable flight experience I am now in a Boeing before most people (by age) are in an RJ (excluding the 19 year old "no experience" wonders, who, on a side note, don't belong there). My point is that by no means should the degree be an FAR requirement to hold the ATP (as some have been trying to make), purely that companies are and should be allowed to set their hiring requirements as they choose, recent legislation pushing for the ATP to fly in a 121 environment is a push in the right direction in terms of the sorts of requirements we need... my personal preference, however, is that these requirements be structured around something that weeds out poor pilots and poor decision makers, not wipes out a group of people based on largely unrelated formalities.
03-30-2010 | 03:55 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 100
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From: CRJ 200 Furloughed FO
doctors do take multiple courses that dont relate to being a doctor, thats all part of getting a degree. Also you're making it out like i said you have to get a degree in something unrelated. Fact is that a large number of professional pilots have degrees in aviation and some have other degrees. Point is that that a degree is a degree. All degrees have basic requirements but when you move on to your decided major you then switch to other courses. A degree is another box to fill on the many requirements it takes to get into this profession.
I could do commercial maneuvers before i had a commercial ticket so why do i need a commercial license? I mean i can do all thats required, how dare they say i need to pass a checkride!! Is that just another "hoop" to jump through or is tha a legit REQUIREMENT? how does that differ from a degree?
Again, getting a degree is everyones choice but those without a degree who "make it" in the airlines are a very small minority. I wouldnt be at NWA/DAL without my degree so i'd say it paid off. To each their own
I could do commercial maneuvers before i had a commercial ticket so why do i need a commercial license? I mean i can do all thats required, how dare they say i need to pass a checkride!!
Is that just another "hoop" to jump through or is tha a legit REQUIREMENT? how does that differ from a degree?Again, getting a degree is everyones choice but those without a degree who "make it" in the airlines are a very small minority. I wouldnt be at NWA/DAL without my degree so i'd say it paid off. To each their own
I understand that even doctors took a history class or 2 in college - I'm not talking about a few classes to get a degree.
I already said that getting an entire education just to be able to check a box doesn't make much sense. And I understand that regardless of my opinion, HR likes to see the box checked.
You had to pass a commercial checkride and get a commercial certificate because you wanted to be a commercial pilot. I wouldn't expect you to meet those requirements if you planned to be a doctor. That's how it differs from a degree.
Like I said, I'm not faulting you for getting an education. It's not a personal attack against anyone on this board. I see it as a blanket policy. It's just throwing something out there without really thinking about it. If you've been around long enough to get where you are, you must have seen HR do some things that were frankly a little dumb. This is just one more of those things.
03-30-2010 | 04:09 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2009
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From: CRJ 200 Furloughed FO
03-30-2010 | 04:41 PM
#94
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2009
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Any idea when the age 23 restriction is going to be lifted? I'll be graduating in less than 2 months with a BS in Meteorology with 2150TT and 360 Multi, part 135 current and I can't apply to Compass because I'm 21 1/2. A few years back Republic had the same restriction, but they lifted that at some point. Anyone have any insight?
03-30-2010 | 05:47 PM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,575
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Again... what's with the assumptions? I don't want to fly for a major, nor do I fly for a major, and by choosing not to finish college and, instead, gaining valuable flight experience I am now in a Boeing before most people (by age) are in an RJ (excluding the 19 year old "no experience" wonders, who, on a side note, don't belong there). My point is that by no means should the degree be an FAR requirement to hold the ATP (as some have been trying to make), purely that companies are and should be allowed to set their hiring requirements as they choose, recent legislation pushing for the ATP to fly in a 121 environment is a push in the right direction in terms of the sorts of requirements we need... my personal preference, however, is that these requirements be structured around something that weeds out poor pilots and poor decision makers, not wipes out a group of people based on largely unrelated formalities.
03-30-2010 | 08:10 PM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 154
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From: Cessna 152
What I AM saying is that in reality it's just a blanket way of weeding people out that has no bearing on the reality of the quality of employees with whom said employer will end up. There's more to being a professional than just checking the 'Bachelor's Degree" box on a resume.
To get that "feel" you have to know theory. To know theory, you have to study.
A degree is not a blanket way of weeding out people--it is a credential to quickly demonstrate that you have gone through a process, you delivered the effort to complete it, you had discipline and perseverance to accomplish this goal, and most of all, to learn that theory. How do you measure the rest?
I strongly believe that you cannot fully learn topics of ethics, organizational management, communication skill (not just spelling lol), and critical thinking/logic training from only a few years of experience. Can you get there eventually? Sure, I suspect you can. But how do you measure your knowledge?
Can having a degree be helpful if you quit learning right after? Absolutely no! A degree has a useful life of 4.9 years. During and after that time, you better continue learning, studying your field, or you will stagnate, and someone *whoa*... with better education and skill will surpass you.
03-30-2010 | 08:18 PM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,518
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From: B737 CA
Any idea when the age 23 restriction is going to be lifted? I'll be graduating in less than 2 months with a BS in Meteorology with 2150TT and 360 Multi, part 135 current and I can't apply to Compass because I'm 21 1/2. A few years back Republic had the same restriction, but they lifted that at some point. Anyone have any insight?
Good show having that experience and a 4-yr degree at age 21.5, though. I hate to say it, but even your experience is quite low for CPS right now. Hopefully things will turn around soon. In the meantime, fly safe. I did the Part 135 cargo thing myself for about 1000 hours and while it was great experience that taught me a lot, I wouldn't want to repeat it again. I've known too many people who died doing 135.
03-31-2010 | 05:09 PM
#99
On Reserve
Joined: Mar 2009
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Hey I lke your Avatar but I disagree with most of what you are saying.
Many of us don't know what we want to do and going to college is a way to find out what we want to do. And getting a degree in Math, Aviation, English, Physics, Biology, Mechanical Engineering, Pre-Med, Astronomy, or whatever is never a waste of time AND they contribute directly to your basic foundation as a well rounded pilot. A good pilot, whether military or civilian needs to have a good solid educational foundation. Without it, you are just a technician.
In today's part 121 flying, you need to be more than just a technician. You need the ability to decipher mounds of FARs, Company contracts, Union contracts, keep up with new aviation technology, front line diplomat who can converse with domestic and international passengers from all over the world on all topics, among other things.
A 4 year degree requirement is a step in the right direction and a college degree does not have to be in Aviation to make you a better pilot. Otherwise the military would only select candidates with Aviation degree, and as we all know that most certainly NOT the case. If anything opposite is true. Military do not like candidates to come in with a lot of preconceived notion of what flying should be.
Many of us don't know what we want to do and going to college is a way to find out what we want to do. And getting a degree in Math, Aviation, English, Physics, Biology, Mechanical Engineering, Pre-Med, Astronomy, or whatever is never a waste of time AND they contribute directly to your basic foundation as a well rounded pilot. A good pilot, whether military or civilian needs to have a good solid educational foundation. Without it, you are just a technician.
In today's part 121 flying, you need to be more than just a technician. You need the ability to decipher mounds of FARs, Company contracts, Union contracts, keep up with new aviation technology, front line diplomat who can converse with domestic and international passengers from all over the world on all topics, among other things.
A 4 year degree requirement is a step in the right direction and a college degree does not have to be in Aviation to make you a better pilot. Otherwise the military would only select candidates with Aviation degree, and as we all know that most certainly NOT the case. If anything opposite is true. Military do not like candidates to come in with a lot of preconceived notion of what flying should be.
Any greater level of education can potentially be of benefit to an individual and their goals and is in some cases certainly required. But the bottom line of ones measured success is perseverance of ambition and skill.
I still do not see how ultimately a basic 4 year degree requirement can improve the conditions, and pay of the US airline industry...(And at the risk of sounding arrogant) that's just the simple thoughts of someone coming from a long and strong background of higher education.
The terrible issue of low pay plaguing the US industry is far too deep rooted and far spread to suggest a prerequisite of any 4 year degree will and can solve. I mean, pull your heads out of the box and have a look around...
...I'm not talking about Southwest (lol), or Delta gentlemen. Have a good look at the requirements of the highest paying pilot jobs around the world...Maybe the industry here could learn a thing or two.
Most of the highest payed pilots I know do not have four year degrees...and nor was it required. Some do, but most don't...And the ones that DO, will be the first to admit that they could have easily done with out it...
...sounds to me, that there maybe a little jealousy here?...that those with the degrees are having a little bit of a harder time finding those illusive "diamond" gigs, while somehow the degree-less have quietly gone on successfully unearthing.
Anyways, I'm not here to argue...and in my opinion there have been many valid points presented on both sides of the issue. But the idea of bringing in a mandatory degree requirement is far too broad to suggest that it is a possible solution, or that it could even be a contributing factor to correct the despicable conditions that plague this particular industry.
Let me ask you this:
Since Compass has introduced the degree requirement, have the starting pay scales been increased?
Anyways, back to living the dream...
The best to all of you, whatever side of the fence you may sit on regarding this issue.
Cheers,
ATR
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