Compass 4 year degree
03-31-2010 | 06:56 PM
#101
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Joined: Sep 2007
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From: G550 Captain
Fair enough...
Any greater level of education can potentially be of benefit to an individual and their goals and is in some cases certainly required. But the bottom line of ones measured success is perseverance of ambition and skill.
I still do not see how ultimately a basic 4 year degree requirement can improve the conditions, and pay of the US airline industry...(And at the risk of sounding arrogant) that's just the simple thoughts of someone coming from a long and strong background of higher education.
The terrible issue of low pay plaguing the US industry is far too deep rooted and far spread to suggest a prerequisite of any 4 year degree will and can solve. I mean, pull your heads out of the box and have a look around...
...I'm not talking about Southwest (lol), or Delta gentlemen. Have a good look at the requirements of the highest paying pilot jobs around the world...Maybe the industry here could learn a thing or two.
Most of the highest payed pilots I know do not have four year degrees...and nor was it required. Some do, but most don't...And the ones that DO, will be the first to admit that they could have easily done with out it...
...sounds to me, that there maybe a little jealousy here?...that those with the degrees are having a little bit of a harder time finding those illusive "diamond" gigs, while somehow the degree-less have quietly gone on successfully unearthing.
Anyways, I'm not here to argue...and in my opinion there have been many valid points presented on both sides of the issue. But the idea of bringing in a mandatory degree requirement is far too broad to suggest that it is a possible solution, or that it could even be a contributing factor to correct the despicable conditions that plague this particular industry.
Let me ask you this:
Since Compass has introduced the degree requirement, have the starting pay scales been increased?
Anyways, back to living the dream...
The best to all of you, whatever side of the fence you may sit on regarding this issue.
Cheers,
ATR
Any greater level of education can potentially be of benefit to an individual and their goals and is in some cases certainly required. But the bottom line of ones measured success is perseverance of ambition and skill.
I still do not see how ultimately a basic 4 year degree requirement can improve the conditions, and pay of the US airline industry...(And at the risk of sounding arrogant) that's just the simple thoughts of someone coming from a long and strong background of higher education.
The terrible issue of low pay plaguing the US industry is far too deep rooted and far spread to suggest a prerequisite of any 4 year degree will and can solve. I mean, pull your heads out of the box and have a look around...
...I'm not talking about Southwest (lol), or Delta gentlemen. Have a good look at the requirements of the highest paying pilot jobs around the world...Maybe the industry here could learn a thing or two.
Most of the highest payed pilots I know do not have four year degrees...and nor was it required. Some do, but most don't...And the ones that DO, will be the first to admit that they could have easily done with out it...
...sounds to me, that there maybe a little jealousy here?...that those with the degrees are having a little bit of a harder time finding those illusive "diamond" gigs, while somehow the degree-less have quietly gone on successfully unearthing.
Anyways, I'm not here to argue...and in my opinion there have been many valid points presented on both sides of the issue. But the idea of bringing in a mandatory degree requirement is far too broad to suggest that it is a possible solution, or that it could even be a contributing factor to correct the despicable conditions that plague this particular industry.
Let me ask you this:
Since Compass has introduced the degree requirement, have the starting pay scales been increased?
Anyways, back to living the dream...
The best to all of you, whatever side of the fence you may sit on regarding this issue.
Cheers,
ATR
Why would I be jealous of you of all people? It's like accusing an officer of being jealous of a senior noncom. Without a college degree, I would not have been able to fly frontline tactical fighters for the military as an officer. I am not envious of any pilot unless he is a senior wide body legacy carrier CA with at least 20 years seniority in this economy. Better yet, if you have a net wealth of at least $10 million, then yeah, I'd be jealous. Who wouldn't be.
Based on your reponse, I'd say at best you are a student pilot, and even if you are a regional pilot, which I seriously doubt, good luck to you trying to make it without a college degree, in this economy. You are the one who needs to get your head of the box and look around you. I know plenty of people who lost their medical and they had no backup plans.
I can't believe all these chatter against a simple requirement for college degree for part 121 flying. Whether you are against it or not, fact of the matter is, given a same qualification and experience, one with a college degree or even an advanced degree like MBA will get picked ahead of you.
Good luck to you though. I mean it. If you can do it without a college degree, more power to ya.
04-01-2010 | 07:02 AM
#102
On Reserve
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Blah Blah Blah, You sure are long winded. For you to say those of us advocating a College degree as a minimum hiring requirement are somehow jealous of those without a college degree is downright laughable.
Why would I be jealous of you of all people? It's like accusing an officer of being jealous of a senior noncom. Without a college degree, I would not have been able to fly frontline tactical fighters for the military as an officer. I am not envious of any pilot unless he is a senior wide body legacy carrier CA with at least 20 years seniority in this economy. Better yet, if you have a net wealth of at least $10 million, then yeah, I'd be jealous. Who wouldn't be.
Based on your reponse, I'd say at best you are a student pilot, and even if you are a regional pilot, which I seriously doubt, good luck to you trying to make it without a college degree, in this economy. You are the one who needs to get your head of the box and look around you. I know plenty of people who lost their medical and they had no backup plans.
I can't believe all these chatter against a simple requirement for college degree for part 121 flying. Whether you are against it or not, fact of the matter is, given a same qualification and experience, one with a college degree or even an advanced degree like MBA will get picked ahead of you.
Good luck to you though. I mean it. If you can do it without a college degree, more power to ya.
Why would I be jealous of you of all people? It's like accusing an officer of being jealous of a senior noncom. Without a college degree, I would not have been able to fly frontline tactical fighters for the military as an officer. I am not envious of any pilot unless he is a senior wide body legacy carrier CA with at least 20 years seniority in this economy. Better yet, if you have a net wealth of at least $10 million, then yeah, I'd be jealous. Who wouldn't be.
Based on your reponse, I'd say at best you are a student pilot, and even if you are a regional pilot, which I seriously doubt, good luck to you trying to make it without a college degree, in this economy. You are the one who needs to get your head of the box and look around you. I know plenty of people who lost their medical and they had no backup plans.
I can't believe all these chatter against a simple requirement for college degree for part 121 flying. Whether you are against it or not, fact of the matter is, given a same qualification and experience, one with a college degree or even an advanced degree like MBA will get picked ahead of you.
Good luck to you though. I mean it. If you can do it without a college degree, more power to ya.
If you would like to go down that road, let me break it down for you, Sir:
- I do have a college degree, although I'm not a "student" in the general sense I do continue to learn.
- I do have a wonderful established, very stable, high paying job in the left seat of a modern jet aircraft with a great schedule and benefits.
- I work with interesting people, as part of a team, and in my position required to fulfill tasks that reach far from just sitting in a cockpit.
- I do not require your luck. I have obtained my goals through lots of hard work and determination. I am happy where I am, and with what I do.
Maybe I'll be proven wrong...Great, what do I care?
Fly Safe,
ATR
04-01-2010 | 02:34 PM
#104
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,349
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From: Body at sea level; heart at 70,000+
The USAF Aviation Cadet program graduated thousands of pilots and Navs without college degrees. Flying skills and motivation were the screening tools - not a college degree. The elimination process was "brutal" with graduation rates going as low as 20% of the original class. The program was ended in the early 1960s as more and more USAFA / ROTC newly commissioned officers entered the service.
04-01-2010 | 08:19 PM
#105
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,182
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From: M88B
I think in general the ppl arguing that this is a bad idea do not have degrees and don't want to see any jobs out of there reach. For those that think they have the best job and did it without a degree, feel safe do you in an industry that has slaughtered so many companies in the past that i won't even attempt to name them all? Having a degree is alway a good thing I wish I had a graduate degree but i don't I'm not going to knock those that do just because i don't. Do I think for a minute that they don't have more "tools" to call upon in their daily lives? Absolutely not.
Everyone has to have a high school diploma right? would it be ok if they dropped out in 8th grade and started knocking out some crop dusting or something. I mean by the time they were 23 they should get a left seat job with a legacy right? They would have a lot more time than the rest of us at that age.
This will effectively stop us from doing overnights where the f.o. isn't old enough to grab a beer. I mean come on ppl is it really going to ruin your lives to know your working with more educated ppl? Stuff like this gets me wound up. Why don't we just get rid of all requirements and we can just hire our friends regardless of their knowledge or training.
Everyone has to have a high school diploma right? would it be ok if they dropped out in 8th grade and started knocking out some crop dusting or something. I mean by the time they were 23 they should get a left seat job with a legacy right? They would have a lot more time than the rest of us at that age.
This will effectively stop us from doing overnights where the f.o. isn't old enough to grab a beer. I mean come on ppl is it really going to ruin your lives to know your working with more educated ppl? Stuff like this gets me wound up. Why don't we just get rid of all requirements and we can just hire our friends regardless of their knowledge or training.
04-02-2010 | 05:50 AM
#106
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,349
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From: Body at sea level; heart at 70,000+
It's not Tim.
04-02-2010 | 09:13 AM
#107
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Joined: Dec 2005
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From: M88B
Of course we have always needed a highschool diploma so nobody complains about having to finish high school. If college had been required all along it would be the same. I really do think that the general public expects their pilots to be educated and if most other professions are following suit this is the natural course. Do we really want to be known as the job anyone can get without an education.
Lets not fool ourselves, the flying part isn't all that hard and you all know it. Its the regulations and decision making skills that can be the tough part for many ppl. I've seen alot of guys that can definately fly but don't need to be upgrading as they don't have that extra something that a captain needs.
I think this ATP minimums and a 4 year degree will drastically help things for the future flyers
04-02-2010 | 11:47 AM
#108
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 634
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From: Airbus
"an expert makes a complicated task look easy"
I think you feel that flying isn't hard for you now... probably because you are an expert and have trained for years. Let's don't let management's rhetoric about how easy our job is and how little we work get to our heads. They want us to de-value our job so they can use that argument when it comes to section 6 time.
...back to the original thread. It appears that Delta required Compass to require four year degrees due to upcoming flow, as Compass is the only way to get hired at Delta, right now.
04-03-2010 | 08:37 PM
#110
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 91
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From: Challenger 604
For those of you arguing that you dont need a degree you have some valid points. Unless its a very specific degree for a specific field then its a 5 second glance for an employer (especially an airline) during an interview. It has no bearing on your flying abilities what so ever. If you are a pilot for 25 years and loose your medical and possess a 4 year degree well good luck falling back on that. You have no experience in your english or liberal arts degree AND you are old and much less desirable in the work force. Its a chance you take whether you have a degree or not.
In my personal experience some of the dumbest people I have met had degrees and have somehow made it into a position that magnifies their lack of intelligence and common sense. I can see the ability to complete something as huge plus but there are a lot of people that didnt have the option of college after high school which is a another issue and I would hope no one on here would think that you dont deserve a shot at flying because you dont have a general degree.
In my personal experience some of the dumbest people I have met had degrees and have somehow made it into a position that magnifies their lack of intelligence and common sense. I can see the ability to complete something as huge plus but there are a lot of people that didnt have the option of college after high school which is a another issue and I would hope no one on here would think that you dont deserve a shot at flying because you dont have a general degree.
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