Compass New Hiring Minimums Changed
 

It seems as if Compass has now removed the 4-year college degree requirement and lowered the ME minimums to 25 from 100. They are also now paying for hotel rooms during training.

Can anyone with knowledge chime in on the pros and cons of the Compass contract vs PSA or Skywest?

Anyone know if there's any plans to grow beyond the 20 E-175s they will be flying for AA out of LAX?

you will upgrade faster at compass, pay is better at skywest as a FO except for year 1, PSA i know nothing about.

Quick upgrade train getting de-railed?

Compass contract online anywhere?

Compass MEC > Home

Click the big red letters

Thanks a lot.

How does the upgrade times compare at compass vs psa

Not sure about PSA but Compass will be around 7-9 month JR captain with the latest bid, possibly lower. Expect it to climb back up once the AA growth ends (Nov I believe).

If you're in the NW Seattle is opening June. 150 guys left to flow to Delta. The latest group of LAX FO's didn't get a single month of full reserve. All are holding build up or full lines starting next month.

A junior west coast base with a quick upgrade. This is the unicorn of the regional world and is hard to come by at most places.

Something doesn't add up here. No problem filling classes and a quick upgrade, yet lowering mins and paying for hotel rooms. What am I missing?

I honestly think it's going to get harder and harder to find pilots for regionals...things will get crazy competitive and regionals will come up with crazy pitches in the future to get candidates to come there. There will never be a shortage at the Legacy/Major level but the regionals are going to struggle to survive.

Here's one thing that they probably aren't telling the new hires at PSA, Mesa, and Compass. It's not a quick upgrade anymore. The quick upgrade is for new hires close to or at the 1000 121 SIC, 1000 135 PIC requirement for upgrade to a 121 PIC.

I wouldn't be surprised to see new hires this fall at Compass holding CA while in training if they meet the minimums. Basically we'll be hiring street CA. PSA and Mesa may see similar results. This only lasts for a short while, until the rate the current pilots start meeting the minimums catches up to the upgrade requirements.

Because those pilots will leap frog seniority in a way, that means those coming to PSA, Mesa, and Compass needing 1000 121 SIC time, will be seeing longer upgrades than their seniority could hold, since a bunch of junior pilots will be upgrading before them. It will take at least 1.5 years or longer for a new hire without the 1000 hours to achieve it. Possibly 2 years. Maybe a pilot or two can pull of 1000 hours in 1 year and 3 months (expect 3 months in training before you have a chance to bid for a lot of flying), but that will be very tough to pull off.

Normally you can guarantee upgrade at 50-55%, but now you will have to move up to 35-45% before you can hold it. Those hired without the time are looking at a 2-4 year upgrade now. Subject to change, depending on attrition of those that upgrade.

A two year upgrade? How tragic for those guys.

Stats from our training department show that those trying to upgrade with only 1000 hrs have a much lower pass rate than pilots with many years of 121 flying.

They still have to flow 150 pilots and the pool is drying up.

I just think their mins. were way above the current standard and with the competition out there it made no sense to make it harder for people to apply.

Never said it was tragic. More realistically it will be a 3-4 year upgrade for those hired at PSA, Mesa and Compass right now with zero 121 SIC or 135 PIC time.

What's tragic is telling those new hires, without any of the 1000 hour requirement, is the upgrade time will be less than 1.5 years for them. It will take them at least 1.5 years to get the 1000 hours and if the upgrade drops to less than that, pilots junior to them will be taking an earlier upgrade because of it. This means less upgrade slots in the future, when they do get the time, and dropping their guaranteed upgrade time frame from the 50% threshold to 35%-45% because junior pilots to them will already be CA.

People should have a good understanding what they are walking into and we don't need PSA, Mesa, and Compass recruiters/pilots telling potential candidates, with zero time, that they will be able to take advantage of upgrades less than a year.

The minimums are dropping and new hires are getting hotels because they can no longer find candidates. The next step is coming to the union and asking to raise first year pay. Which means negotiating compensation raises for all pilots. Endeavor is a good example of this.

looks like things are moving at Endeavor now. Last realignment changed to a vacancy with 35 captain upgrades.:)

1st world problems

They are still filling classes (10 per week). I believe this is a preemptive change based on a drying up pool. The have to continue to hire 40/m through most of the year.

Do new hires still have the flow to Delta? That could be a big incentive for folks.

no

[filler]

This.

Along with the 150 flow, many others being picked by majors and the 20 new AA airframes. New hires (right now) with no 121 time will be able to upgrade in 1.5 years or so. (But I agree with 404, an FO with only 1.5years 121 will have a harder time passing than the past pool of pilots who may have been 5+ year FO's or even Capts at other airlines).
Even after the flow is done(nov) the growth and other attrition due to major hiring will make for a decent ammount of movements for a while after. Even then, its a descent timeframe. Somewhere around 3 years I beleive I was told.

Also, up until recently compass only hired ex 121 guys with 4year degrees. Now all those guys are either hired somewhere, or out of the game. It would be wise to open interviews to those without 121 time or 4 year degrees to keep the airframes staffed with pilots Compass likes. Im sure there are ex 121 capts they have turned down, and non121, no degree applicants that have gotten the green light. Not all will be good candidates, but there are many pilots out there with plenty of relevant expierence that may or may not have some college.
You will see more and more new hires with some or no college, and no-121 time.

Since our upgrade will probably drop to basically street captains this fall, I think anyone hired right now will see their upgrade extended due to more junior pilots upgrading before them because those pilots will come in for the street captain slots. When they get their 1000 hours, their upgrade time will depend on how many upgraded below them, and depending on how close they start from today.

For those without any of the 1000 hour requirement, it is probably 2 years for those hired right now and anyone hired this summer or fall onwards, is probably looking at 3-4 years.

Subject to change due to abnormal attrition/growth and if we get a realistic interview/flow for the pilots after this flow expires

Compass has been hiring CFIs/non 121 people for over a year now.

Last I heard, people interviewing now are getting May classes.

Current upgrade is a Jan 2014 hire.

Properly staffed on captains right now, but once we start losing 20/mo to Delta starting next month, things will get interesting.

Compass has a good contract, lots of movement and has a great small company corporate environment. Best move I could have made coming from Envoy.

I think you are correct in that something doesn't add up. Changing policy to accept non degree candidates and also in the same policy change, begin paying for new hire accommodations can mean only one thing. That something their hiring department sees indicates that the candidate pool is thin and drying up.

This great reshuffling of regional flying within the past two years has kept Compass and PSA with a steady stream of applicants coming from shrinking and dying carriers like Envoy and Expressjet. As LCCs and the majors are now all hiring at a steady clip, regional pilots at all carriers are taking advantage of the ever increasing "pilot's market" and bailing for greener pastures.

The climate has been changing slowly during this period and I believe will begin to accelerate even more this year. Consider that shrinking carriers like Envoy are STILL hiring. Not only that, they are still offering hiring bonuses.

PSA and Compass will exhaust the supply of ship jumpers sometime in the near future and the days of new hire classes of 20 to 30 will be in the rear view mirror.


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Don't forget Endeavorer is wholly owned and that's always turned out bad for those in the past. Delta is ruthless and it's amazing how quickly people forget how terrible RA can make it for wholly owned carriers. Those first few upgrade classes will be to upgrade those who have been downgraded and there are 7.5 year FOs who still have to upgrade. Don't get too excited about 9E yet.

Maybe this is a preemptive move to keep the flow of candidates coming. It's really hard to believe but maybe TSH is being kind of proactive? I can't believe I said "TSH and proactive" in the same sentence but it seems to be the truth.

Does Compass have a route map? If based out of LAX are most flights west of the mississippi? Do they fly to Mexico City?

No route map. Most of the flights are west of the Mississippi but still a fair amount of flying east of it. No Mexico City at this point. Maybe for AA in the future but Delta has AeroMexico doing that route from LAX as of now. The only route we do to Mexico is Monterrey from LAX.

Thanks.

Filler Filleroo

Overall pay is better at SkyWest and upgrade times are faster at Compass. Right now the upgrade time is at 3.5-4 years at SkyWest. Don't know for sure about Compass. The thing about upgrades is they can and do change without notice. Never chase a quick upgrade.

Don't get too excited about Compass. 9E is wholly owned and Delta can decide to increase their compensation and let Compass and everyone else wither and die with their current CPA pay rates. Once TSH hits the wall, they will need to increase our compensation to attract candidates and restrict attrition. If Delta and American say no, watch our flying reverse.

It's a two way street, don't assume Endeavor is a guaranteed fail. Get your PIC and get out of here as soon as you can. That is all I can suggest.

Preemptive? They are the worst at preemptive moves. We are already well behind on the upgrades and new hires due to their decisions. This one was probably made later than it should have been too.

I want the koolaid you're drinking. Skywest is in a worse position than Compass with all their non-76 seat airplanes waiting to get parked. The only way Skywest pilots will be insulated from that is if they park Expressjet and ASA planes at an abnormal rate and give their 76-seat replacements to the Skywest pilots. Until you become a 76-seat fleet, you are at risk to feel the regional shrinkage going on.

I answered the question that was asked, and it's the truth. SkyWest has a better pay scale & Compass (for now) has a shorter upgrade time. No one knows what the future holds no, not even you do. Perhaps you don't know what the term "kool aid" implies...sir.

Truth. That's koolaid right there.

How's the medical and retirement? What happens if you get sick long term?

158 50 seat aircraft waiting to get parked. Anything less than 158 76 seat replacement aircraft means you will be shrinking.

Sick long term? Have you seen Compass's long term sick compensation? It doesn't exist.

BTW I"m pretty excited about Compass and the opportunities we have here. We are in a better position than 9E and I am not afraid to admit it. TSH is hiring at a good clip and they really didn't have to start paying for hotels yet because we are still filling classes. The only dept that is lacking is the training dept. Not enough instructors...we have enough pilots.

[QUOTE=AlaskaBound;1847090]Sick long term? Have you seen Compass's long term sick compensation? It doesn't exist.

Compass doesn't offer it but you can get short and long term "loss of license" through ALPA after getting off probation.

If it's truly kool aid, then disprove my statement. You can't, so you're either a troll, management or both.

I don't see Skywest ever getting close to the upgrade times compass has. For the past 6 months ~ year anyone that went to compass over Skywest will make more. Skywest does indeed have a better fo scale except for the first year.


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Compass Koolaid. It exists everywhere.

And yes, we have long term sick at Compass. Check our contract. Might give you even more koolaid to drink ;)

We have it as part of our contract and it kicks in after you exhaust your sick and vacation time. Getting ALPA will give you more coverage.

Skywest has short and long term disibility. They do have better retirement and medical. They have a ton of 50 seaters which will fade out sometime, perhaps offset if they can find homes for the 250ish firm aircraft they have on order. Compass has explosive movement until the end of the year and few lifers. Lets pat all ourselves on the back and finish the cup of Koolaid. Both are subcontractors for major airlines whose very existence is based on being under compensated.
Pick whichever gives a good QOL, be smart with the little money you earn, have fun on the overnights, be cool to your coworkers, travel a bit, and pursue the next great opportunity when it comes.