Slice

Well...if you can yank and bank, then flying straight and level is easy by comparison. Fighters do fly IFR you know. We also use CRM(inter-cockpit) and shoot approaches too! My a/c has no dedicated Wx radar, a two axis autopilot(not coupled), GPS with no moving map and does not sequence to the next waypoint automatically, etc. I also fly an RJ on the outside and it's much easier than single pilot IFR in a fighter.

Tgaug6300

Slice,

I'm sorry that the aircraft that you guys fly don't have the equipment that you would like it to have. I also want you to know that I respect all you guys do.
What I have a problem with is when I have a Chief pilot of a corporate flight department (A former fighter guy) tell me that a pilot with out fighter experience is basically a sub-par pilot. And I quote "even those C-5 guys with 10,000 hour pathes on thier shoulder. That doesn't mean $#it". Give me a break! Here's a news flash, I bet not everyone who went into military aviation wants to fly fighters. According to him I guess that still makes them sub-par. And I guess those civilians flying checks at NIGHT (no matter what the weather), SINGLE PILOT IFR, without a COUPLED Auto-pilot, without weather radar, in a 35yr old PISTON TWIN ( that can't climb at 5000FPM to get out of the weather). That time doesn't mean $#it either!?

Slice, I don't want this thread to be a "Who's better Military or Civilian" thread. That is not my intention. But, I'm sure you have to agree with me in that there are Fighter Pilots, and there are Pilots who just happen to fly Fighters. I'm sure not every pilot in your squadron is the best you have ever seen. I just think credit should be given where credit is due.

TG

Pilotpip

Mary Poppins I'm not. I knew what I was getting into when I decided to take this route. Lucky, maybe. I'm not rich, nor do I ever hope to be. As long as I enjoy doing this (which I do) and can pay the bills with a little left over on the side (which I do), I'm happy. When I'm not happy doing this any more, I'll move on.

SkyHigh

Those who can do and those who can't flight instruct.

Keep at it if it makes you happy. The question was "why do people bag on flight instructing"? Most have ambitions in other arenas and are working towards a better lifestyle. Instructing can be a secure warm place where one can stroke their ego by instructing primary students without having to risk new horizons. Students will look up to you and concentrate on every gem of wisdom you have to offer. I get it. We had the same kind of guys in high school who graduated a few years before but would show up at lunch time.

If it makes you happy then do it, someone has to I guess. I however did everthing I could to get the heck out of there as fast as possible and so do most others.

SkyHigh

Pilotpip

Skyhigh, you gotta start somewhere. I'm building a lot of time and gaining a lot of experience. I know that this isn't the ultimate goal, but I'm treating it like it is while I'm here. I'd be doing myself and my students a disservice if I didn't.

So if those who can do and those who can't flight instruct, what is it that you're doing?

SkyHigh

Banner towing, fire patrol, fish spotting, or just buy a 150 and fly the wings off of it for the cost of auto gas. I am not bagging on your chosen profession at this point in your career but the question was "why do people dislike flight instructing". We don't like instructing since the pay is low hours are long and it is dangerous. Wouldn't you rather be doing something else?

SkyHigh

Pilotpip

No. I'm flying brand new, well maintained equipment, with a steady flow of customers and I'm paid enough to make ends meet and then some. But yeah, the long hours do wear on you. They do regardless of what you do.

I looked into things like banner towing, skydiver outfits and also had an offer to fly a 414 for a family friend's business. There was a common denominator, I didn't have enough time to meet insurance requirements. I would have met the hour requirements for almost all of the regionals before I could do any of the above. A local banner towing outfit requires 135 minimums. It paid less than my flight instructing job.

rickair7777

If you can get a non-CFI pilot job at the entry level, absolutely take it.

HOWEVER: Airline new hire screening and training is really geared to the CFI who is currently teaching. If you go this route get the CFI/CFII/MEI and use them some on the side. If you show up at an airline with a 2-3 year old commercial checkride oral as your only technical background, you will be scr*wed.

SkyHigh

Pip,

Good for you, however most instructing jobs pay less than minimum wage. The average experience instructing is very bad. Low pay and wasted years. If you are lucky enough to be working for a large and good company then I am happy for you. If you are earning enough yo pay your bills then perhaps you had better make a career out of it since most other jobs are downhill from there.

As I mentioned before the question was "why don't people like flight instructing". Instructing is boring, dangerous, low paying and dims your own skills since most of the time you are just sitting there. The majority of flight instructors don't have it as good as you. I had to work for companies that would hire every CFI that walked through the door and then we all had to fight for every student. They only paid for the time you were in the saddle, so the company saw each new hire as a free salesman. The competition was so fierce that you were afraid to take a day off since all your co-workers would steal your students. In order to make ends meet we all worked as pizza delivery or in my case I would build houses at night. Not long after I was able to leave instructing the same companies began selling CFI jobs for $5000 as a primary instructor, an additional $2500 for Instrument and another 2500 for MEI.

For most flight instruction is miserable and people are clawing the walls to get out. Just because you are having a good time doesn't mean that everyone is.

SKyHigh

Pilotpip

Skyhigh,

We've debated on a number of threads here, and I respect your take. One of the things that you'll notice, especially in the "looking to start training" threads is that I am one to say weigh as many options as possible and choose the right course for you. Don't go where the shiny ads say you should go, go where you should go.

Luckily, I've had a lot of objective advice from people that did this before me. I have worked at an FBO for the past four years (still do part time) for the networking. More often than not crews would be more than happy to share advice and experience with me while waiting for passengers or driving them to the hotel. I've taken almost all of that to heart, and try to be as calculating as possible. Plenty of friends in my graduating class are in the situation you have described. In that respect, I'm very lucky and realize it. I've worked two and three jobs to finance this trip. I've done quite a bit of carpentry, stage managed a promotional tour, and had lots of other odd jobs to pay the bills. I'm not trying to brag on myself, but with my upbringing hard work and sacrifice are really nothing new for me so I take it in stride.

The owners of my flight school pay well (it doesn't hurt that St. Louis has one of the lowest costs of living in the country), and make it a point to spread the wealth. Whoever needs students gets them as they walk in the door. We don't compete with each other, in fact it's quite the opposite. I've been flying with a number of other instructors' students on cross countries and local night flights because their schedules have been booked up. The owners know that this is a temporary stop for most of us, they just ask that we do the best we can while we're here. I think that's a pretty fair trade.

The current hiring rush in the regionals should be helping this situation out too. While I did my CFI at the flight school I'm at now, I still sent lots of resumes out to a number of places throughout the country. Again, I got the best offer from where I am, I knew what I was getting into and also realized that moving is too expensive at this point. While there are other options out there, right now about the only viable one is the military. The feds don't regulate this industry, insurance does. If you're low time and don't have incredible connections, forget about doing anything but instructing. Even with the connections I mentioned, I was looking at at least another 700 hours before I could fly that 414. People who don't like the sight of blood usually don't become surgeons. That being said, I knew it was important to know what I was getting myself into and treat it like it's the last stop while I'm here.

None of us can know what the future will bring and there are two good lessons I learned very early in life. The first is that we can't predict the future. Second, make the best of the current situation, because we can't predict the future. You're very right, instructing (like the military, or any other route) isn't right for everybody, I'm finding that I like it. If you don't want to do it, don't do it.