GM Corp. Planes Down To Three From Seven
11-29-2008, 03:25 PM
#31
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
Be care what you wish for..........
Originally Posted by NowCorporate
...................
I can sit here all day and provide you city pairs, meetings, rest, privacy, security, time management etc. that necessitates corporate aviation -- but you have no interest in listening, You are a troll, you just want to throw a cheap, nonsense shots from left field.
I can sit here all day and provide you city pairs, meetings, rest, privacy, security, time management etc. that necessitates corporate aviation -- but you have no interest in listening, You are a troll, you just want to throw a cheap, nonsense shots from left field.
I'd would be very careful beating my chest in defence of corporate use of aircraft in any (publicly) traded company, whether looking for a handout or not. A good snoop could find some interesting things that anyone would have a hard time justifying.
11-29-2008, 03:45 PM
#32
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,518
Originally Posted by dckozak
Your defence of corporate aviation is laudable but incomplete. Not all use of the company jet is equal. I have flown with many former corporate pilots who can tell stories of the CEO and others, using the Jet to fly his family on a non business related trip. Was it documented as such?? who knows. Do the shareholders know, could they know even if they wished to know?? Again, an open question. How does this non business travel get accounted for on the company ledger?? Is the boss charged the cost of travel and (by extension)does he pay income tax on that income?? Does the SEC have any interest??
I'd would be very careful beating my chest in defence of corporate use of aircraft in any (publicly) traded company, whether looking for a handout or not. A good snoop could find some interesting things that anyone would have a hard time justifying.
11-29-2008, 04:49 PM
#34
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by NowCorporate
You really have no idea what you are talking about.
You have a small-minded view of corporate aviation, you have fallen to the CNBC "hate the rich" scheme.
Corporate aircraft are simply part of the core business in a place the size of GE with a Global reach. Maybe they are smart to cutback, I imagine GE itself will be a small size of what it was, but to have NO flight department? As a shareholder or potential investor Id have to wonder how efficient they are on the airlines. Charter/Fractional is better? - not after 300hrs a year.
I can sit here all day and provide you city pairs, meetings, rest, privacy, security, time management etc. that necessitates corporate aviation -- but you have no interest in listening, You are a troll, you just want to throw a cheap, nonsense shots from left field.
You have a small-minded view of corporate aviation, you have fallen to the CNBC "hate the rich" scheme.
Corporate aircraft are simply part of the core business in a place the size of GE with a Global reach. Maybe they are smart to cutback, I imagine GE itself will be a small size of what it was, but to have NO flight department? As a shareholder or potential investor Id have to wonder how efficient they are on the airlines. Charter/Fractional is better? - not after 300hrs a year.
I can sit here all day and provide you city pairs, meetings, rest, privacy, security, time management etc. that necessitates corporate aviation -- but you have no interest in listening, You are a troll, you just want to throw a cheap, nonsense shots from left field.
11-29-2008, 04:53 PM
#35
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by whatthe6789
I think you miss some of the points of having a flight department. They aren't just used for executive travel, they also use them to get factories working faster. Say a crucial part of the assembly line breaks down at a plant. The flight department can fly both the engineer AND the parts necessary to fix the line and get the plant back on-line within hours. Compare that to having said engineer fly commercial (takes a whole day) and FedEx the part (even if you overnight it, you still have to wait for them to deliver = aka maybe 10 am the next day if you're lucky). Now factor in that for every HOUR that the assembly line is not working, the company can be losing MILLIONS. So having an extra 24 or so hours of non-production can really make an impact on the company's bottom line, and there are HUNDREDS of plants in the US, and things break more often than you might think. So, it's a lot easier to say that big companies CANNOT afford to NOT have a flight department.
11-29-2008, 05:14 PM
#36
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,518
Originally Posted by DYNASTY HVY
Apparently they have asked the FAA to see if anything can be done about having their a/c not show up on tracking websites.
11-29-2008, 05:39 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by radmanly
How can you not see the PR disaster that is showing up in a private jet to beg for a taxpayer bailout?!? I'm sure there are lots of city pairs that a private jet makes more practical than the airlines but DTW/DCA isn't one of them.
Some Fortune xx departments have a ban on "one city, one person" trips.
Also, many DO NOT allow family members to be on a/c without the principal passenger. Ford appeared NOT to be one of these as it was said they flew the CEOs wife around. THAT is irresponsible IMO. He gets paid enough to buy her a fractional or charter.
11-29-2008, 05:46 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 423
Originally Posted by dckozak
Your defence of corporate aviation is laudable but incomplete. Not all use of the company jet is equal. I have flown with many former corporate pilots who can tell stories of the CEO and others, using the Jet to fly his family on a non business related trip. Was it documented as such?? who knows. Do the shareholders know, could they know even if they wished to know?? Again, an open question. How does this non business travel get accounted for on the company ledger?? Is the boss charged the cost of travel and (by extension)does he pay income tax on that income?? Does the SEC have any interest??
I'd would be very careful beating my chest in defence of corporate use of aircraft in any (publicly) traded company, whether looking for a handout or not. A good snoop could find some interesting things that anyone would have a hard time justifying.
I'd would be very careful beating my chest in defence of corporate use of aircraft in any (publicly) traded company, whether looking for a handout or not. A good snoop could find some interesting things that anyone would have a hard time justifying.
MOST Fortune xx departments are WAY ahead of your snoops. Many do not allow personal travel for any but the very top execs. And even then every trip is accounted for, for every flight an approval is signed by the passenger noting if this is a Business or Personal trip.
Personal trips are then billed at charter rates to the exec. The department can actually MAKE money flying these trips. The benefit to the exec is that he knows his crew, his plane, security, etc.
The days of unaccounted use of the compnay jet in a public company are long gone (from my experience)
The idea of an exec's wife using the company jet to go shopping would irate me, even if it was my job to fly her....I just dont see that happening anymore.
11-29-2008, 10:52 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Hi!
Whatthe6789: U R wrong on the flying of parts by the corporate aviation arm...
I fly for a company that is about 1/2 freight. When the auto companies (or anyone else) needs last-minute frieght to keep an assembly line open, they need a dedicated freight airplane, as the volume of freight can't be carried on an aircraft set up for PAX.
NONE of the auto companies (or any other assembly-line companies) have aircraft that can carry frieght, in any meaningful amount. I guess that they have figured out it's cheaper to outsource this type of work.
cliff
LUV
PS-Just flew in tons of BlackBerry Storms from YYZ via DTW.
Whatthe6789: U R wrong on the flying of parts by the corporate aviation arm...
I fly for a company that is about 1/2 freight. When the auto companies (or anyone else) needs last-minute frieght to keep an assembly line open, they need a dedicated freight airplane, as the volume of freight can't be carried on an aircraft set up for PAX.
NONE of the auto companies (or any other assembly-line companies) have aircraft that can carry frieght, in any meaningful amount. I guess that they have figured out it's cheaper to outsource this type of work.
cliff
LUV
PS-Just flew in tons of BlackBerry Storms from YYZ via DTW.
11-30-2008, 09:37 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: CFI in training
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by atpcliff
Hi!
Whatthe6789: U R wrong on the flying of parts by the corporate aviation arm...
I fly for a company that is about 1/2 freight. When the auto companies (or anyone else) needs last-minute frieght to keep an assembly line open, they need a dedicated freight airplane, as the volume of freight can't be carried on an aircraft set up for PAX.
NONE of the auto companies (or any other assembly-line companies) have aircraft that can carry frieght, in any meaningful amount. I guess that they have figured out it's cheaper to outsource this type of work.
cliff
LUV
PS-Just flew in tons of BlackBerry Storms from YYZ via DTW.
Whatthe6789: U R wrong on the flying of parts by the corporate aviation arm...
I fly for a company that is about 1/2 freight. When the auto companies (or anyone else) needs last-minute frieght to keep an assembly line open, they need a dedicated freight airplane, as the volume of freight can't be carried on an aircraft set up for PAX.
NONE of the auto companies (or any other assembly-line companies) have aircraft that can carry frieght, in any meaningful amount. I guess that they have figured out it's cheaper to outsource this type of work.
cliff
LUV
PS-Just flew in tons of BlackBerry Storms from YYZ via DTW.
And radmanly, we all complain about how much these CEOs get paid, well, if you break that down into hourly or even smaller units, being able to work up til 1.5 hours before being in D.C. and then back to work 1.5 hours after being in D.C. Compare that to flying commercial and only being able to do one thing that day (get to the airport early enough to check-in, wait in the terminal, then testify, go back to the airport check-in again and then wait another hour for your flight, and all that assuming that wx was good all over the country so their flights wouldn't be delayed). An good example of executive use of time is that saying that Bill Gates LOSES money by bending down to pick up a $100 bill. Now, he would still stop and pick it up, but that just goes to show how if you break their salaries down, a couple of hours not working can really add up. And one other thing, can you imagine the hell that would have broken loose if they would have missed the meeting because wx delayed or cancelled their commercial flights?
Last edited by whatthe6789; 11-30-2008 at 10:06 AM.
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