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Time2Fly 11-26-2008 04:58 PM

logging PIC question
 
Can some help clarify a logging PIC question..
If during your initial training you receive a PIC Type but you are flying right seat/SIC, when could you log PIC time?
Thanks

NowCorporate 11-26-2008 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Time2Fly (Post 506714)
Can some help clarify a logging PIC question..
If during your initial training you receive a PIC Type but you are flying right seat/SIC, when could you log PIC time?
Thanks

You should be logging PIC when you are the PIC - the guy signing for the aircraft.

Everyone gets a "PIC type" from FlightSafety - actually being the PIC is an entirely different story

In reality - log what you want - just be able to explain it and back it up with your skills and mindset.

I do a lot of interviews, its very easy to differentiate between a Captain and a type rated SIC padding PIC time.

dn_wisconsin 11-26-2008 06:46 PM

Simple don't log the time unless you've actually earned it. In other words even if you're in the left seat with your airline or oufit and not the final authority, its NOT PIC. Period. I'm fully typed in the bus but sit in the right seat for my company....guess what I'm still the FO.

WEACLRS 11-26-2008 07:40 PM

We recently discussed this here:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/av...questions.html

Qtip 11-26-2008 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Time2Fly (Post 506714)
Can some help clarify a logging PIC question..
If during your initial training you receive a PIC Type but you are flying right seat/SIC, when could you log PIC time?
Thanks

Your logbook is yours. What you log is your business. What you use/attempt to use towards a certificate or a rating is a different story. Training received in a simulator in a FAR 142 training program can be counted towards a cert. or a rating. Any other sim can not, not even FAR 121 training.

CW777 11-27-2008 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Time2Fly (Post 506714)
Can some help clarify a logging PIC question..
If during your initial training you receive a PIC Type but you are flying right seat/SIC, when could you log PIC time?
Thanks

FAR 61.51

61.51 Pilot logbooks.
top
(a) Training time and aeronautical experience. Each person must document and record the following time in a manner acceptable to the Administrator:
(1) Training and aeronautical experience used to meet the requirements for a certificate, rating, or flight review of this part.
(2) The aeronautical experience required for meeting the recent flight experience requirements of this part.
(b) Logbook entries. For the purposes of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, each person must enter the following information for each flight or lesson logged:
(1) General—
(i) Date.
(ii) Total flight time or lesson time.
(iii) Location where the aircraft departed and arrived, or for lessons in a flight simulator or flight training device, the location where the lesson occurred.
(iv) Type and identification of aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device, as appropriate.
(v) The name of a safety pilot, if required by 91.109(b) of this chapter.
(2) Type of pilot experience or training—
(i) Solo.
(ii) Pilot in command.
(iii) Second in command.
(iv) Flight and ground training received from an authorized instructor.
(v) Training received in a flight simulator or flight training device from an authorized instructor.
(3) Conditions of flight—
(i) Day or night.
(ii) Actual instrument.
(iii) Simulated instrument conditions in flight, a flight simulator, or a flight training device.
(c) Logging of pilot time. The pilot time described in this section may be used to:
(1) Apply for a certificate or rating issued under this part or a privilege authorized under this part; or
(2) Satisfy the recent flight experience requirements of this part.
(d) Logging of solo flight time. Except for a student pilot performing the duties of pilot in command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember, a pilot may log as solo flight time only that flight time when the pilot is the sole occupant of the aircraft.
(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person—
(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;
(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or
(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.
(2) An airline transport pilot may log as pilot-in-command time all of the flight time while acting as pilot-in-command of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate.
(3) An authorized instructor may log as pilot-in-command time all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor.
(4) A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time only when the student pilot—
(i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft or is performing the duties of pilot of command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Has a current solo flight endorsement as required under 61.87 of this part; and
(iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating.
(f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log second-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person:
(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of 61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft's type certificate; or
(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.
(g) Logging instrument flight time. (1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.
(2) An authorized instructor may log instrument time when conducting instrument flight instruction in actual instrument flight conditions.
(3) For the purposes of logging instrument time to meet the recent instrument experience requirements of 61.57(c) of this part, the following information must be recorded in the person's logbook—
(i) The location and type of each instrument approach accomplished; and
(ii) The name of the safety pilot, if required.
(4) A flight simulator or approved flight training device may be used by a person to log instrument time, provided an authorized instructor is present during the simulated flight.
(h) Logging training time. (1) A person may log training time when that person receives training from an authorized instructor in an aircraft, flight simulator, or flight training device.
(2) The training time must be logged in a logbook and must:
(i) Be endorsed in a legible manner by the authorized instructor; and
(ii) Include a description of the training given, the length of the training lesson, and the authorized instructor's signature, certificate number, and certificate expiration date.
(i) Presentation of required documents. (1) Persons must present their pilot certificate, medical certificate, logbook, or any other record required by this part for inspection upon a reasonable request by—
(i) The Administrator;
(ii) An authorized representative from the National Transportation Safety Board; or
(iii) Any Federal, State, or local law enforcement officer.
(2) A student pilot must carry the following items in the aircraft on all solo cross-country flights as evidence of the required authorized instructor clearances and endorsements—
(i) Pilot logbook;
(ii) Student pilot certificate; and
(iii) Any other record required by this section.
(3) A sport pilot must carry his or her logbook or other evidence of required authorized instructor endorsements on all flights.
(4) A recreational pilot must carry his or her logbook with the required authorized instructor endorsements on all solo flights—
(i) That exceed 50 nautical miles from the airport at which training was received;
(ii) Within airspace that requires communication with air traffic control;
(iii) Conducted between sunset and sunrise; or
(iv) In an aircraft for which the pilot does not hold an appropriate category or class rating.
(5) A flight instructor with a sport pilot rating must carry his or her logbook or other evidence of required authorized instructor endorsements on all flights when providing flight training.
[Doc. No. 25910, 62 FR 16298, Apr. 4, 1997; Amdt. 61–103, 62 FR 40897, July 30, 1997; Amdt. 61–104, 63 FR 20286, Apr. 23, 1998; Amdt. 61–110, 69 FR 44865, July 27, 2004]

7700 11-27-2008 10:49 AM

Part 91 PIC = Sole minipulator if you are typed.

Part 1 PIC(FedEx, UPS, SWA 1000hrs. PIC) = Signed for the Aircraft. Name listed per leg on Flight Plan IFR/VFR. Or Aircraft maintanance log if required VFR/IFR. Can still be logged PIC for sole manipulator but Does Not count towards these purposes.

Part 135, 125, 121 PIC = Required for dispatch release signature. Cannot log sole manipulator PIC under these Regs.

Jetcap37 11-27-2008 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7700 (Post 507090)
Part 91 PIC = Sole minipulator if you are typed.

Part 1 PIC(FedEx, UPS, SWA 1000hrs. PIC) = Signed for the Aircraft. Name listed per leg on Flight Plan IFR/VFR. Or Aircraft maintanance log if required VFR/IFR. Can still be logged PIC for sole manipulator but Does Not count towards these purposes.

Part 135, 125, 121 PIC = Required for dispatch release signature. Cannot log sole manipulator PIC under these Regs.

Nice, simple to the point and even correct. What more can you want :p

250 or point 65 11-28-2008 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 7700 (Post 507090)
Part 91 PIC = Sole minipulator if you are typed.

i hate this "sole manipulator" BS, thats just one part of the regulation.

(3) An authorized instructor may log as pilot-in-command time all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor.

I can instruct for a week, never touch the controls, and log PIC.

FURTHERMORE, I can take a private pilot up to show him a takeoff, pattern, and landing and HE can log PIC if he never touches the controls because Dual given as a private is PIC.

DSflyer05 11-28-2008 07:29 PM

At my company we typically fly with two type rated captians, Nobody "signs" for the airplane before we leave for the trip we are just assigned to fly the trip. When you look at the flight logs it only lists the name of the crew members, no Captian or FO. We among our selves understand that we switch seats every leg so when I am in the left seat i log PIC and when I am in the right seat I Log SIC. Does that sound like it would be logged accurately enough for the 1000 PIC turbine requirements?


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