Corporate Jets Are Out
12-28-2008, 05:39 AM
#11
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: retired
Posts: 992
Originally Posted by DYNASTY HVY
I wonder if the bank's that were bailed out also cut down on their corp a/c usage?
Quick side note -Does the UAW use corp a/c ?
Quick side note -Does the UAW use corp a/c ?
12-28-2008, 09:27 AM
#12
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
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Posts: 614
Originally Posted by captjns
One way Coach from DTW to DCA on Monday the 29th $256 to $594 including taxes and fees... they gotta pay for their own booze.
One way First Class frp, DTW to DCA $689 including all fees... all the booze they can consume at no extra charge.
https://res.nwa.com/secure/flight.nw...ponse%407e8edf
Do you think you can get a G-V from the hangar to the end of the departure runway for less than $689, including all fees and crews' salaries?
One way First Class frp, DTW to DCA $689 including all fees... all the booze they can consume at no extra charge.
https://res.nwa.com/secure/flight.nw...ponse%407e8edf
Do you think you can get a G-V from the hangar to the end of the departure runway for less than $689, including all fees and crews' salaries?
12-28-2008, 09:36 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: HS-125
Posts: 95
Originally Posted by captjns
One way Coach from DTW to DCA on Monday the 29th $256 to $594 including taxes and fees... they gotta pay for their own booze.
One way First Class frp, DTW to DCA $689 including all fees... all the booze they can consume at no extra charge.
https://res.nwa.com/secure/flight.nw...ponse%407e8edf
Do you think you can get a G-V from the hangar to the end of the departure runway for less than $689, including all fees and crews' salaries?
One way First Class frp, DTW to DCA $689 including all fees... all the booze they can consume at no extra charge.
https://res.nwa.com/secure/flight.nw...ponse%407e8edf
Do you think you can get a G-V from the hangar to the end of the departure runway for less than $689, including all fees and crews' salaries?
If you look at some of the ultra-high level corporate pay, you're looking as high as $10,000/hr+ salaries. In the best interest of the shareholder, flying on a corporate aircraft can be a huge cost savings when you consider the amount of time spent flying airlines.
Yes throwing one exectutive on a G-V for an international golf trip is entirely excessive. But if the company has a the right policy regarding travel, that excess can be avoided.
Yes having the Big 3 CEO's travel via corporate jet could have probably been the worst PR move since Columbia University let Ahmedinajad speak, but in plain sense it was the most cost effective to do.
I'll agree with previous posters on how the politicians made that an ultra-easy sell to the public against the Big 3 for their own power-play. But if they looked at their own travel, what would they be flying?
12-28-2008, 11:11 AM
#14
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Position: retired
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Originally Posted by shanKs
I'll agree with previous posters on how the politicians made that an ultra-easy sell to the public against the Big 3 for their own power-play. But if they looked at their own travel, what would they be flying?
Ms. Pelosi's personal mount?
12-28-2008, 11:48 AM
#15
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I’ve always heard the cost-benefit argument for corporate flight departments. Time is money, how much have you got to spend. In addition to the issues of security, executive productivity, a corporate asset that is depreciated, control of the flight schedule… Maybe there is an emotional element when it comes to the decision of G-V vs a Falcon 900…. But the fact is, it takes money to make money. What I resent is some elected IDIOT that is incapable of running a business of their own, sucking on the public teat at a salary of some $170,000+ pretending to run the business of the country suggest that they know better! Now some spineless corporate executives, fearful about public perception and appearances, are going to make the decision to divest themselves of corporate aviation, in a soft market aviation market… good bizness thinking there sport.
I’ve been buying and driving American produced crap for years, I wonder what Pelosi, Reid, and Frank drive? If nothing else, maybe I’ll look at buying a Ford next time around because they chose to hold out on the bail outs….
My family thinks that I’m uppity because I live in a double wide, but I refuse to be embarrassed by my success. I wish I could have heard one of those corporate suits make a good argument for corporate aviation rather than run for cover when asked how they got to DC... About as relevant a question as what Barney Frank ate for dinner the night before.
I’ve been buying and driving American produced crap for years, I wonder what Pelosi, Reid, and Frank drive? If nothing else, maybe I’ll look at buying a Ford next time around because they chose to hold out on the bail outs….
My family thinks that I’m uppity because I live in a double wide, but I refuse to be embarrassed by my success. I wish I could have heard one of those corporate suits make a good argument for corporate aviation rather than run for cover when asked how they got to DC... About as relevant a question as what Barney Frank ate for dinner the night before.
12-28-2008, 12:48 PM
#16
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Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by AirbusA320
Corporate Jets are high visibility and are easy targets for the politicians. I wonder how much productivity was lost when the execs drove from Detroit to Washington. Jets save time and if you have a group that has to travel on a short notice you can even save money over full airline fares.
Based on the current state of the Big 3, I would say absolutely NO productivity was lost. The guys that are at the top of those companies have DONE NOTHING. They don't deserve the jets, if anything they deserve to get canned. Great job they've done.
12-28-2008, 02:38 PM
#17
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by ovrtake92
Reporters and politicians are quick to assault corporate aviation when its popular to do so, but you never see anyone running the math on hourly operating cost of a company jet vs. airline travel, including CEO time and hotels. Not to mention the fact that we can fly to places the airlines couldnt dream of. If you throw 5 people on our 9 seat jet, you will have a cheaper day than if you took the airlines on a trans con flight, and everyone's home with their family for dinner. NBAA even has an unbiased program you can run to see when it is cheaper to fly the jet or the airlines. Smart business people dont use airplanes for just cause their neato, they are financial descisions that help their business model succeed.
12-28-2008, 04:41 PM
#18
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Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
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Company I flew for operated a corporate shuttle twice a day to New York. The jet accommodated 14 passengers, which was filled both ways five days a week. That was a win win situation. No change of planes to get to or from NY, operating costs were cheaper than buying 14 first class tickets. Not to mention 4 satellite phones with fax capability. Definitely a justifiable operation.
These jokers knew well in advance of their plans to go to DC. They could have pooled their resources and pardon the pun… “plane pooled” to DC.
How often are you going to find 4 people that need to go BDL-DCA-BDL at the exact time? Still a no brainer?
These jokers knew well in advance of their plans to go to DC. They could have pooled their resources and pardon the pun… “plane pooled” to DC.
$2500 DOC (mid size jet) x 2 hours (BDL-DCA-BDL) = $5000-$6000 (approx)
$1280 (Round trip ticket) x 4 pax = $5120 (approx)
.....hmmm, come and go when I want, no three year old snot-bubbles on the back of my seat and oh yeah, I know EVERYBODY sitting around me.
No brainer to me.
$1280 (Round trip ticket) x 4 pax = $5120 (approx)
.....hmmm, come and go when I want, no three year old snot-bubbles on the back of my seat and oh yeah, I know EVERYBODY sitting around me.
No brainer to me.
12-28-2008, 05:23 PM
#19
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Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Company Pilot
Posts: 110
Originally Posted by captjns
One way Coach from DTW to DCA on Monday the 29th $256 to $594 including taxes and fees... they gotta pay for their own booze.
One way First Class frp, DTW to DCA $689 including all fees... all the booze they can consume at no extra charge.
https://res.nwa.com/secure/flight.nw...ponse%407e8edf
Do you think you can get a G-V from the hangar to the end of the departure runway for less than $689, including all fees and crews' salaries?
One way First Class frp, DTW to DCA $689 including all fees... all the booze they can consume at no extra charge.
https://res.nwa.com/secure/flight.nw...ponse%407e8edf
Do you think you can get a G-V from the hangar to the end of the departure runway for less than $689, including all fees and crews' salaries?
I agree with the other arguements about productivity and better time management that Corp. aviation provides. If they had taken the airlines would they of made it in time to appear at the hearings? Doubtful. So, to make sure they did make it, they would have to leave the day before? Another unproductive day away from the office. If they would of arrived in a
CJ3 or smaller I doubt that there would be much arguement.
12-28-2008, 07:20 PM
#20
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by captjns
How often are you going to find 4 people that need to go BDL-DCA-BDL at the exact time? Still a no brainer?
Ummmm, a couple days a month? Once a year? Same company, same meeting? Pick a day. For that particular scenario it is a no brainer. One pax flying TEB-VNY-TEB on a GV? Not so much.........
Last edited by VmoMmo; 12-29-2008 at 03:29 AM.
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