"..with you..."
 

Why do you corporate guys always find it necessary to tell the controllers that you are "...with you..." when you check in on a frequency? The controllers know that by the very reason you are talking to them. It's redundant, a total waste of time, and sounds student pilotish.

with you response
 

have you ever thought of worrying about more important things than how pilots talk on the radio??? and to answer your question, maybe they say "with you" for the same reason you list yourself as a BOEING capt. Who cares???????????????, not to say you probably have a Boeing Captain bumper sticker on your car, just as a new pilot would have FAA licensed pilot, so dont go bashing on where you once were which probably was not that long ago.

I like to say it. I also say "any traffic please advise on the CTAF", "roger, wilco", "popeye", "we have them on the fishfinder" and start all of my transmissions with "uhhh."

In fact, since you brought it up, I'm going to make sure that I do it more often.

Also, while we're on the subject, why does everybody start a check on with "Washington Center" (or whatever center you're in)... obviously they know who they are. It's totally redundant and sounds student pilotish....

(You'd think with all of the other issues that this industry is facing, this would be one of the last ones out there that warrants discussion...)

Actually grady I have "bashed" airline pilots on the same subject.

I have the same respect for all pilot groups...wasn't bashing any one of them. I already went thru the airline pilot forums pointing out the same ridiculous absurdity of "...with you".

To make you happy I removed any reference to the aircraft type I fly.

Another thing -- ATC points out on-coming traffic at the flight levels simply so you won't be alarmed thinking he's at the same altitude. A simple "thank you" or "in sight" in the inital reply is fine but there is no need to later clog up the frequency to tell him you finally have the traffic in sight -- he doesn't care one iota. I have seen a lot of blocked calls because guys think they need to later tell center they have traffic in sight.

Just another way for CFIs to milk students out of money...I found my own style / pace on the radio and as long as I cover the information / don't take up too much time I'm not changing.


I do the same as you Josh...Of course, I'm not a pro so maybe I should just go away...


-LAFF

mach 84 could you please let me have your check on statement so i can put it in my flight bag??? i bet you are a real jewel to fly with.

Center, Fedex 1218, flight level 310.

That should suffice.

Sigh...I only wish,

Mine is the same only, "Center, Duchess 5173M, Seven Thousand"

It just doesnt sound as cool. The only time I have been to the flight levels have been when I fly commerically

"With you" "checking on" ect......... bugs me too. But hey, its a free country right! Just dont try that stuff in the MNPS/NAT or anywhere else in the world. The person on the other end probably won't have any idea what you are saying.

Happy Thanksgiving! :D

Cuz that's how we're trained in corporate pilot school.:rolleyes:

Certainly one thing I've never done is spewed an entire cabin announcement over ATC. Heard a guy do this AGAIN at ORD of all places on ground control. ORD GROUND CONTROL!!!! That was popular.

Solidarity message?
 

Maybe it has to do with the FAA/controller labor disputes. Pilots who support the controllers check in: "Cessna 123, with you." Pilots who support the FAA say "Cessna 123, against you." This helps determine traffic sequencing. :p

>>>>mach 84 could you please let me have your check on statement so i can put it in my flight bag??? <<<<

fedupbusdriver is exactly right. Just say what you'd normally say but drop the utterly useless "..with you...". It isn't that hard.

If you are in the habit of saying "..with you..", think how truly redundant, dumb, and useless the phrase is everytime you say it. Try adding "..with you"..., "...here we go", and all the other goofy stuff some pilots in the U.S. garb up their readbacks with when flying oceanic, or in Europe or in Asia and even reading back zeros as "oh" and you'll be quizzed by the controller as to what you're talking about and announcing to the world you are relatively new to the industry.

The worst readback has to be "rolling" when given a "cleared for take-off" clearance.

"Fedex 1218, level 310"
That is all you need. No controller in the USA would have any difficulty with that.

Wow. That makes you really cool. I wish I could only be as cool as you. Unfortunately I did not graduate from such a prestegious place as UND, and could not benefit from their superior flight training, especially in radiotelephony phraseology.


Mach 84 - I totally agree with you. It's really unfortunate that SO many pilots have terrible RT technique and don't use standard phraseology. The sad thing is many of them think it makes them cool to "personalize" their transmissions in some stupid way, when all they're doing is showing the controller what morons their are. Just today I heard this Flt Options guy who kept adding "you bet!" to EVERY SINGLE control instruction, despite the frequncy being very busy.
Why pilots can't stick to standard phraseology is beyond me. Its not like they're not used to following procedures. I doubt they would modify the 80-kt callout with some childish phrase like "Here we go! 80kt - lightspeed!". The guy/gal who you're flying with would immediately think you're a moron. Well, that's exactly the same thing that happens when you say things like "...on the fishfinder", the controller now thinks you're either unprofessional/untrained, or simply a sloppy pilot.
It doesn't take any extra effort to stick to standard phraseology, why not do it? I can guarantee you NOBODY on frequency thinks you're cool when you add stupid remarks.

Why do we bother with all these stupid preflight checks and checklists? That is SO student pilotish... We're pros and know what we're doing.

Seriously, if you really have to ask why it's a smart idea to initiate all RT transmissions with the name of the radio station you are addressing, then you really have a lot of catching-up to do.


PS. FlyerJosh, I am starting to think your whole post was a joke/ironic. If so, please excuse my posts. I failed to see the irony, but I apologise anyways. If you're actually serious about that, then feel free to PM me and I'd be glad to explain to you why adding "Washington" instead of just "center" is a good idea.

Hey, that sounds cool. And I think, at Vr, I'll say, "We're going ballistic Mav!"

I dont think flyerjosh went to UND

Ummm... just to clear things up. Yeah. Most posts were totally sarcastic. That said, I think that people that get all worked up over an extra word or two, need to go find a hobby. If something minor like saying "with you" or the name of the Center in your radio transmissions bugs you (which judging from the posts here it does), then I wonder what else drives you up the wall in a crew environment.

I once flew with a guy that got all worked up about "non-professional" radio calls and additions. He went so far as to tell me not to say "Good Morning" or "Hello" in radio transmissions. He also said to never say "Thanks" after being given a short cut or having a request approved since "it's ATC's job to accommodate us." IIRC, he even got worked up when you turned the radio knob the long way around (ie rotated through 120.0 when switching from 125.0 to 130.0) because it cause "unnecessary wear to the tuning unit."

See where I'm headed with this?

There are SOOOOO many other important things in life than getting worked up over a little thing like this (IMHO). That said, don't get on the radio and give a discertation either. However something like "with you" or saying the name of the center shouldn't get you all bent out of shape. Some folks might sound like idiots with "lightspeed" or "fishfinder", but I figure, who am I to correct them as long as they don't make a 20 second transmission and tie up the frequency.

I'll continue saying my hellos and good days. You guys can be all "professional" and brief in your transmission. You're perogative.

Like I said before, I think that there are plenty of other issues in this industry that are bigger priorities to get worked up about and spend energy on: User fees, bankrupt airlines, mergers, loss of pensions, continual slides in pilot pay for the worse, unionbusting, illegitimite airlines, airspace & ATC upgrades, security BS, congressional oversight of the FAA, education of the next generation pilots to prevent SJS, the list goes on and on and on...

Actually I did. But there were many mornings in January when I wished I was in DAB! That said, I would do it again in a heart beat.

-Class of 2000-

with you
 

:cool: great word flyer josh. these people that are worried @ this stuff are your typical people who can t fly and multitask therefore they must do everything they can to offset their lack of skill

The radio deal
 

If things are busy, then keep it brief. Try not to be stupid at any time.

Controllers are people, and will treat you the way you treat them. Have you never been thanked by a controller? Has a controller never apologized for dropping the ball? I have heard controllers give compliments. If a controller gives makes a call to help you out, I think a quick "thank you" is in order. If you hinder them by giving them BS when they are busy, it will urk them.

HERE IS MY BIG PROBLEM

What about people who talk so soft and quiet on the radio that ATC asks them to SAY AGAIN after every transmission????????????????

That drives me bonkers

**If you hear me say "with you", please overlook me as I have fallen off the wagon. I have a "with you" calls anon. meeting next week.

Just curious as to how many people say "tree" and "fife" instead of "three" and "five"??? I have only heard a handful of controllers, and even less pilots say it. It is suppose to be "tree" and "fife", but does anyone actually us it, inside the US???

I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the guys that get worked up about non-standard terminology ("with you") don't use that standard terminology. In fact, I'd bet that from time to time, they even use one or more of the following:

"Thirteen", or other "teens", when checking in with altitude. ("Fedex twelve zero six, climbing out of thirteen thousand for two zero zero.")

"Point" in an altitude callout. ("American twenty five ten, two point three for seven thousand")

"We'll be looking" (As in traffic)

I thought I would quote every word of this post because it was so good! I completely agree. I typically don't say "with you", but I don't care if someone else does. Also, I add in hello, good morning, thanks, ... any of these I deam necessary.

I agree with the above. I think also that the reason people add hello's and thank you's is because they like to humanize the radio a little bit. That way it doesn't sound like a bunch of robots talking to each other. I was flying over Indy center one day and everybody on the radio was saying Seeya! when they got released to another center. It was like a competition to see who could say it in yet another new and interesting way. It really made the long boring flight more fun for everybody.

A decent pilot can usually sense when the controllers need you to be a concise robot and when you can chill out a little bit and be a human being.

I hope this post will not offend any robots. It's not that you're wrong, it's just that you're not any fun.:D

i agree with wat u said 4fansoffreedom, who cares if you say ''hello'' or ''goodday'' , jeez controllers are humans too!. If everytime you hear someone say "g'day" you get mad enuff where you need to bring it up on forums online, you prob need to get laid and stop worrying about every little thing.

I actually had no idea that me saying "G'day" or "with you" actually got people upset...

Sorry to all those I've offended.

If there's time, I usually say "good morning, afternoon..." to ATC when getting handed to them. Will also say a quick "thanks, have a nice day" etc when leaving. Never hurts to be nice, especially when you're instructing and dealing with the same controllers on a regular basis. They recognize your voice and I'm certain that it's helped me out a couple times when I've gotten cleared to land number one when more than one aircraft is about the same distance away from the other. When it's busy, however, I get in, say what I need to say, and get out.

The Fed I took my CFI checkride with sent me an article on "Any traffic in the area please advise" and told me that if he heard me say it at any point, he'd fail me. The AIM brings this phrase up specifically and says not to use it.

Corporate?
 

I think this was subject was talked about before except it was targeting the airlines. I like to follow the AIM for the most part, but some stuff can be cut, like the "Fedex twelve eighteen flight level three one zero" or just "level three one zero" My biggest pet peeve with a lot of pilots is their inconsitency with saying the actual altitudes..ex. "twelve point five for two three oh." "Two five zero for three five oh" just confuses me right there. I'm sure the controllers get confused occassionally. Glad not to be a controller

Just for the record -- I said nothing about "Good mornings" or "Good day" or "good-bye" to the controllers. I was only talking about the absolute absurdity and stupidity of saying "....with you". As a reminder and in case you don't realize it, the controllers know that you are "with them" by the mere fact that you are talking to them so why be an idiot and even bother saying it?

how 'bout this beauty

"XXX checking in FL350"

checking into what? the hotel?:D

or "pos and hold"......love that one.

the more important issue is

HOW COME EVERY AVIATION MOVIE HAS THE PILOTS SAY "OVER"

thats ****es the royal flip **** outta me

The correct call from a FDX 727 sounds like this...

"...FedEx 585 flight level 320 request....
" Kansas City center, go ahead with request..."
"...FedEx 585 Request direct Grand Forks..."
"...FedEx 585 cleared direct Grand Forks..."
Pause....pause...pause...
"Kansas City Center, FedEx 585....can we have a heading?"

True story--I flew my 1962 Rangemaster to work today--IFR GPS direct. At my jet job--I had to snivel a heading. Nothing like flying a 140 knots with a /G on the flightplan but flying a /A (actually /W) in the flight levels...

Albie,

Don't you know the trick of getting direct when you're flying a /A or /W aircraft? This was given to me by a NWA DC9 crew back in the days when I was commuting on them regularly:

While flying down the airway, put the aircraft into heading mode, and turn the heading 5 degrees to one side.

After 3-4 minutes ATC will call you asking where the heck you are going. Tell them, "we show right in the middle of the airway, sir." 9 out of 10 times, they'll give you a heading for direct some place down the road! :D

I never really thought about all of this stuff.. I will call back "pos and hold" when that is what I am cleared to do, I do try to get the correct center "memphis center..flagship XXXX" instead of calling memphis "atlanta", and occasionally I will say "with you" but only when its a freq swap with the same controller such as "Flagship 5700 change to my frequency 132.55" I will say something like "Flagship 5700 with you 132.55" or "Flagship 5700 on 132.55" otherwise its short and sweet, sometimes I will be "nice" if its not busy or an ungodly hour (like 6am) "Good morning memphis, Flagship 5700 out of 180 for 12 with Golf parking A11" and they will normally chat a bit- but I only do it if there if it is a real lul on the radio.

For those of you complaining about some of these calls, may I suggest reading the AIM section 4-2-3. A few quick points directly from the AIM:

1) On Initial Contact a)Name of facility being used b) Your full aircraft ID c) When operating on an airport surface state your position d)The type of message to follow or your request if it is short: and e) The word 'over' if required.

2)...Acknowledge with your aircraft ID, either at the beginning or at the end of your transmission, and one of the words 'Wilco', 'Roger', 'Affirmative', 'Negative' or other appropriate remarks.

These are just a few examples that I've seen griped about on this thread that ARE a part of the standard phraseology that we ARE supposed to use. If this thread was just about your specific pet peeves, then I apologise. If, as it seems to me, this thread was referring to being professional and using correct phraseology on the radio, then may I suggest that we all get re-acquainted with the AIM. I know that many of us (I really mean you) are long removed from flight training and have actually forgotten the basics, but please refresh yourselves.

If a controller greets me or I expect them to greet me with a 'good morning' or 'good afternoon' I WILL continue to demonstrate simple interpersonal courtesies by responding to or pre-empting their greeting.

Get back to me with further questions.

The one that's been getting under my skin lately are pilots who start every transmission with "and".

On initial call up, "and somewhere tower cessna 12345 is outside the final approach fix inbound." "and approach blah blah blah". The altitude calls "4.0 for 8.0" annoy the crap out of me as well.

Call me an anal flight instructor if you want, but its just one of my pet peeves. I don't mind saying "so long" "good day" "good morning" etc. however.

By the way Dundem, thanks for mentioning the good book of AIM chapter 4.

Get over it, smartboy. "with you" can actually serve a purpose.

It works nicely as a separater between your flight number and altitude. Sure, "flight level" will separate the flight number from the altitude,
i.e., "Abex four forty flight level three eight zero"
but "with you" is shorter, and somehow easier to get out quickly.

How about this.... "Abex four forty one seven thousand"
Was that ABX 441 at 7000? or ABX 440 at 17000?

Stick a "with you" in there and there's no confusion.

penguin,

Good point. Especially for those of us who don't have a callsign and an all number registration. (N12345)

That's where the word "LEVEL" should be used. Not "with you"