Bailout
 

Well, it’s been months since the bailout. I’m retired airline and find it unbelievable the government kept airlines afloat till the end of September....Really not sure why. Sure would’nt have happened in the 60’s and 70’s. The strong survive is the way it’s supposed to be but not anymore, I guess.

You airline boys don’t know how lucky you are !

No. He is correct. After this, I don't want to see a single ALPA article about government protectionism for any foreign airline.



We are very lucky to be crews in America. ALL across the world, crews have already been furloughed anywhere from 30-100%. Virgin Australia struggled and asked the Australian government for help. They were told to pound sand so off they went into receivership. Look at furloughs across the world, they are staggering. We are lucky we won't see that until Oct 1st.

I am VERY grateful.

Meh, using the government to build your airline is one thing, keeping critical infrastructure (ie freight moving) afloat during a crisis is another.

​​​​​​I can see your argument as it relates to NK, F9, Jblu, Sun C, Alligent though. Not sure why we all benefitted, but I'm very thankful.

Seems like apples and oranges, mostly.

It seems like apples and oranges, because it is apples and oranges. And Shyguy knows it. I don’t understand why he’s trying to correlate them as similar actions, but I don’t really care either, so there’s that.

Retired regional lifer just wants to see everybody fall.

Put down the bottle old man. If you’re actually retired 121 I assume you’re posting here because none of your ex wives will return your calls and your kids still don’t love you.

If you’re a troll then well done and enjoy your weekend.

This is a little ignorant to say the least. This was a government mandated shutdown that caused a 96% drop in demand. Many sections of the economy received a “bailout.” No business sits on enough cash to handle this, all liquidity markets were closed. The only way to get the economy moving was to either keep it open or flood it with cash. All companies have since been able to raise significant cash to the benefit of the entire economy.

AAL, UAL, and DAL would’ve furloughed 75% of their employees then probably still failed in that order. Some LCC’s would remain for domestic flying but our country and industry would’ve been devastated for decades. But yes...we all were lucky that there was a no furlough until October 1 clause. And the reason Virgin Australia is not being bailed out by a government is because they are not an Australian owned company. They have enough to worry about...why would they help Branson. Similar to how none of the foreign owned cruise lines received a bailout here.

You have to love how moronic this sounds. During the 60's and 70's all airlines were regulated to the point the government set the prices and guaranteed a certain profit for each airline. It limited who could compete on what routes to fly. The entire airline industry was being propped up by the government for over 40 years until deregulation hit in 78 and now those airlines had to actually compete and were not guaranteed a profit by the government. That is why we no longer have Western, Pan Am, Eastern, Braniff as they were all too bloated due to the government subsidizing them to compete with the upstarts.

Does no one understand the history of the industry that we all now work in?

Apparently not the OP.....who makes reference to the 60s and 70s, yet didn’t start his airline career until ‘90 or so.

Free markets and capitalism. Yes, it is socialism that is saving the airlines and jobs. If only our medical system were next. Haves and have nots. I guess I know too many have nots.

Have a blessed day.

haves and have nots, or makers and takers? life’s what you make, not what someone else says you get.

Actually no.

It's the enlightened self-interest of politicians which is saving the airlines since their collapse would dramatically increase the severity and duration of of the economic impact of COVID... which would be bad for said politician's careers. If covid caused the concrete of the interstate highway system (or big hydro dams) to dissolve, they'd pay to preserve that too. That's government doing it's thing.

All government functions are not "socialist" in the context of what the term means in our society. It's a matter of degree.

The government caused the shutdown and subsequent economic calamity. Even with the bailouts, many businesses aren’t coming back.

Call it a socialist handout if you want—but make no mistake it will be paid for at one point or another.

Socialist? It’s the American way...put it on a pay later card!

um. Nooooo. Wrong. Try agin. Next!.....

This was caused by the federal government, ergo, they have a responsibility to help fix it. We are all dumber from reading your post. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

If airlines end up furloughing in October then this bailout money was useless. All we did was run up the national debt and put tax payers on the hook for it. I don’t see how this is going to be perceived as a good thing. Basically the CARES Act just kicked the can down the road.

The point was to preserve national infrastructure. It did that.

If nothing was done, many or most of the big majors (and the little ones) would have dumped something like 70% of their employees and then filed BK before Jul 1st. Then the economy would have that huge boat anchor during the recovery, plus the capacity would have been tied up in BK proceedings and not available when the recovering economy really needed it.

It was a rush job, and a blunt instrument but it had to be done.

Politics got in the way, so a lot of money went to paying workers to not work. Would have been more reasonable IMO to allow 30% furloughs, or allow 40% across-the-board pay cuts (regardless of CBAs) but reasonable doesn't always fly in the real world.

Actually keeping all the employees allowed the airlines breathing room to assess and plan. I'm certain there will be fewer furloughs than if they were in a panic to avoid liquidation in a matter of weeks. As it is, they're trying to plan and staff for 2021... otherwise they'd be staffing for Sep 2020, and doing it out-of-seniority with an emergency court order.

yea, to hell with those employees about to lose their jobs. That 6 months that they used to job hunt/stash away cash was unreasonable! It’s their own fault the feds told us all to stay home and not travel...........Dude, u are a first class, grade A douche bag.

Let’s just hope there are no more programs coming to prop this silly business any further. On October first the airline business is free to go back to being a business....If the US airline industry needs to be 30% smaller then get it done......We place way to much importance on this game anyway. Some pieces of the US economy like leisure travel, tourism etc may dwindle and if it happens it happens. Business will adapt as free enterprise always does. The US transportation was stretched to the breaking point anyway...A slow down for 3-5 years will greatly help that problem

Why do you guys keep saying the government caused it? The airlines were pulling down schedules well ahead of any government orders, because their customers were cancelling flights en masse.

I find it funny how pilots are against socialism until it benefits them, then they turn a blind eye. Sort of like how they look down on unions... except they're in one.

Really, you actually believe this???
I think many will argue that getting their ducks in a row before oct 1 was a relief.
I’ve gotta assume you’re senior enough not to be affected. Enjoy another glass of wine....

Good to have some reprieve for an anomaly which no one started within the US. But here’s a rub: financial advisors, friends and family and or your parents have mentioned save for a minimum of 6 months pay for that rainy day, in this case survival mode for the past 2 decades if not forever. And that 6 months may not be enough and it is situation dependent, but that’s not where I am headed for fault finding. Everyone has heard it no matter what. So if it’s basically common sense and the public attempts to adhere to it or at least has been briefed to do it (not easy for many), then why didn’t the airlines have a 6 month pot? No excuses - buyback whatever, definitely no excuse. It’s life’s rules that while not concrete can help save the day but never applies or is heeded by the large entities. You have an umbrella or jacket at times don’t you in case it rains. Some will say that’s different based on occurrence rate so here’s the no excuse. You have a fire extinguisher in your home don’t you so how often have you used it or even looked at it? While it might not save the day, you might have a fighting chance. Doesn’t matter that no one saw this coming, crap rolls downhill; therefore, companies should have safety net. But you must agree, this debacle is consistent with companies being driven into the ground, concessions, bankruptcy, stock buyback and of course golden parachutes. They don’t get hurt, you do and many times the taxpayer will pay the piper or take on this burden. Debt is debt the future is wide open.

I find it funny to think a grown man is so naive as to call this Socialism.

Way to sound like an elitist dude. You do realize there were many others that lost their jobs with barely a 2 weeks notice. Of course you don’t see that, because the point of the post is that this was a short sighted decision by our politicians. It amazes me how much of you are always crying about socialism, but when it’s your own skin that needs saving you welcome it with open arms.

Why do you deserve to get your “ducks in a row” when millions of others never got this chance? I guess you think you’re more entitled than others.

I’m well aware of others who are hurting. Some of them are my family. Spare me the BS. You’re comments were douchey, plain and simple. And stop ascribing beliefs to me. You won’t find one quote from me deriding any specific financial or government system. Not my style. Apology accepted.

so we should spread the pain equally. Got it. Now who sounds like a socialist?? ...

the reality is the feds specifically targeted airlines when they said stay home and don’t travel. Like I said, their shelter in place policies caused this. It’s completely reasonable to expect them to help fix the problem.

Ummmm....okay. You must have a split personality or something. Dude, u are a first class, grade A douche bag! Have a good day!

put down the shovel and quit while you’re behind! This was a quote MOCKING the hypocrisy of those who decry socialism. If you can’t see that, I can’t help you. At least we can now all see that your ability to read and comprehend the English language is severely limited. It explains a lot. Carry on.

I don’t understand why you’re so riled up? My original post wasn’t directed at anyone. I was stating an observation about the CARES Act. I think you’re the one that needs to put the shovel down.

oh maybe it’s your desire to let thousands of people twist in the wind? And now you backpedal acting like it was some simple observation. Complete bs. You get smacked down and then pretend you have no idea why anyone would be annoyed with your posts. You’re act is tiresome. Scurry away now.

OP drops this turd and then vanishes....just to have people bicker over politics, basically. Pure socialism doesn’t work. Pure capitalism doesn’t work, either. The mix and balance of the two is how you have an actual society.

Ohhh grow up! Nobody wants to have thousands of people twist in the wind as you say. Dramatic much? If you can’t have a civil conversation like an adult you’re not worth anyone’s time.

ok. Now you’re “above the fray”...lol. I seriously doubt you work here. You’re completely out of step with any pilot who understands the situation we’re in.

Socialism works just as well as every other Ponzi scheme. Eventually a large number of the members get the shaft. Progressive liberalism is just like Time Share Condo’s.....Great idea until they are full. Fingers crossed that Oct 1 ends the bankrupting of America. Let it rise or let it fall....

In fairness everyone was cancelling because the government said oh s.... incoming. Everyone run. So yes cancelations preceded some closures but by the time we heard about that NY, CA, and WA were already going to shelter in place.

I’ve been spending during this time which is how our economy works. If it weren’t for the cares act my wallet would’ve been shut. Multiply this by hundreds of thousands of airline employees and the economic damage would’ve been more than the cares act cost which is precisely why it passed and was signed by the president.

Also we are not Greece. The dollar is the most powerful currency in the world. The United States doesn’t have to be debt free by retirement or death like a person. This isn’t kitchen table finance. As long as GDP grows the debt can actually grow with it as long as you can service it and the rest of the world believes in the dollar. This can go on forever.

I’m not advocating for endless senseless government spending but in this case it was necessary. Not so we all do nothing forever but to stop the bleeding enough so we can get back to producing that GDP and servicing said debt.

Socialism??? It sure smacks of corporate welfare.