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Boosters…
The World Health Organization (WHO) has called for a halt to booster shots in wealthy nations, at least through September, as poor countries struggle with access to vaccines. WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus earlier this month said richer countries have administered about 100 doses of coronavirus vaccines for every 100 people on average, while low-income countries — hampered by short supplies — have provided only about 1.5 doses per 100 people. "We cannot, and we should not, accept countries that have already used most of the global supply of vaccines using even more of it, while the world’s most vulnerable people remain unprotected," Tedros said |
Originally Posted by Wingedbeast
(Post 3281034)
They start to harm your immune system the more you take.
https://youtu.be/CwMJxB36yck |
Originally Posted by Wingedbeast
(Post 3281034)
They start to harm your immune system the more you take.
not. You just made sh*t up. |
Good thing the WHO doesn't have jurisdiction here.
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I struggle with the logic of boosters (except for the immunocompromised and those 70+ years old) AT THIS TIME, especially when there's probably a couple billion people around the world that would like to be vaccinated but don't yet have that option.
Boosters are a better use for vaccine that has already been acquired and would otherwise expire/be discarded, but short of that and given how most breakthrough infections are extremely mild (other than in the aforementioned immunocompromised and 70YO+) doesn't seem like the most prudent use of scarce resources. |
Originally Posted by Wingedbeast
(Post 3281034)
They start to harm your immune system the more you take.
[citation needed] |
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
(Post 3281255)
I struggle with the logic of boosters (except for the immunocompromised and those 70+ years old) AT THIS TIME, especially when there's probably a couple billion people around the world that would like to be vaccinated but don't yet have that option.
Boosters are a better use for vaccine that has already been acquired and would otherwise expire/be discarded, but short of that and given how most breakthrough infections are extremely mild (other than in the aforementioned immunocompromised and 70YO+) doesn't seem like the most prudent use of scarce resources. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3281404)
I haven't seen any definitive data that we need boosters this soon. Yeah, yeah the mfgs observed some drop off in lab titers but that doesn't automatically correlate to real world efficacy... and mfgs have an incentive to encourage boosters.
For those still believing it is possible to eliminate circulating COVID 19 from the environment (and those selling booster shots) the desired outcome is frequent booster shots. For those believing that COVID-19 will ultimately circulate like the other four common human corona viruses that pretty much ch just cause colds in those previously exposed to them, the objective is to just get everyone with activated t-cells, one way or another and get on with life, well they see things a little different. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3281404)
I haven't seen any definitive data that we need boosters this soon. Yeah, yeah the mfgs observed some drop off in lab titers but that doesn't automatically correlate to real world efficacy... and mfgs have an incentive to encourage boosters.
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Originally Posted by jtbost
(Post 3281418)
it is quite shocking that these various organizations haven’t consulted with you? Not sure why they chose not to..
I have relevant professional experience from a previous life so I do know where to look. So anyhow, where did YOU find the data on real-world loss of efficacy inside of 12 months? I'd love to see any reputable source for that. |
Originally Posted by Excargodog
(Post 3281417)
I think the issue is between relatively short-lived (6-9 months) circulating neutralizing antibodies, which if high enough will decrease the likelihood of someone getting infected and activated T-cells which are longer lasting and will decrease the likelihood of you having serious consequences if they do get infected.
It's playing out as we speak, but I haven't seen anything indicating that vaccine efficacy against infection is waning due to dropping antibody levels. It most likely will eventually, but are we there yet? The large stage-3 trails from last year are still running, you'd think they'd be seeing something by now in those groups? Jumping the gun on boosters will be very expensive (and profitable to the right people), and is not absolutely zero-risk. Although the risk from boosters is pretty low since the population by definition has already tolerated the vaccine in question once or twice. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3281437)
Yes. But in real-world application there's a balance/trade-off between antibody and memory cell titers. Observing the chemistry in the lab doesn't tell you how that will play out in the real world.
It's playing out as we speak, but I haven't seen anything indicating that vaccine efficacy against infection is waning due to dropping antibody levels. It most likely will eventually, but are we there yet? The large stage-3 trails from last year are still running, you'd think they'd be seeing something by now in those groups? Jumping the gun on boosters will be very expensive (and profitable to the right people), and is not absolutely zero-risk. Although the risk from boosters is pretty low since the population by definition has already tolerated the vaccine in question once or twice. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3281436)
Any significant info related to covid is all over the media (in some cases specialty science/industry journals). None of it is secret, or can be kept secret if somebody wants to sell vast quantities of pharma.
I have relevant professional experience from a previous life so I do know where to look. So anyhow, where did YOU find the data on real-world loss of efficacy inside of 12 months? I'd love to see any reputable source for that. https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...r-shots-505911 |
OK, so here's some real-world data reported today:
Israel is reporting that boosters reduce infection significantly in the over-age-60 demographic: 86% and 92% for severe covid. Not sure if that's baseline over non-vaccinated, or over the original vaccine regimen. It's not clear (and they admit it) whether the drop in efficacy was due to antibody decline or delta. Delta is a separate issue. Article behind the WSJ paywall. |
Originally Posted by GeeWizDriver
(Post 3281543)
Politico says CDC data indicates a “precipitous drop” in efficacy after a fairly short time. Like 6-8 months.
If by efficacy you mean resistance to reinfection, about 9 months would be consistent with what happens with the other four common human coronaviruses that cause (in most people) simple colds. In those four coronaviruses, which we have pretty much all already had, ~9 months after your last cold the circulating antibodies decrease to the extent that you can be reinfected and have another cold which spikes your antibody level for another 9 months, wash. rinse, and repeat, with the only kicker being that an infection with one of the other three common coronaviruses might give your immunity to the first one a variable degree of boost. Which doesn’t mean these other common coronaviruses can’t kill you too, if you are sufficiently old with enough comorbidities, or are otherwise immunosuppressed. https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/10.1....201506-1239LE https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-83987-3 https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics...ronavirus-229e |
Reuters with recent study info on declining effectiveness.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/c...195903311.html And yet, still no official credit given for past infection and recovery. More info every day that natural immunity is more durable and effective than some thought. That may be changing. George Mason University law professor makes the case. https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2...-mandate-exem/ |
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Originally Posted by GeeWizDriver
(Post 3281766)
Reuters with recent study info on declining effectiveness.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/c...195903311.html https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...er-2021-08-20/ So vaccine utility in preventing hospitalization and death is still holding up. |
I will not be taking any booster shots! I didn't sign up for endless injections!
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Originally Posted by HIFLYR
(Post 3282422)
I will not be taking any booster shots! I didn't sign up for endless injections!
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
(Post 3282424)
i presume you get boosters every ten years for yellow fever, tetanus, flu.
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
(Post 3282424)
i presume you get boosters every ten years for yellow fever, tetanus, flu.
Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment While I loath wikipedia this link has a lot of info on why you should not just trust the government talking head https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethi..._United_States |
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...mic-even-worse
In September, the U.S. will start offering a third COVID-19 shot to all adults vaccinated with Pfizer and Moderna, even though these vaccines still offer high protection against hospitalization and death from the delta variant. https://media.npr.org/assets/img/202...9-s600-c85.jpg CORONAVIRUS UPDATESCOVID-19 Booster Shots Will Roll Out In September In The U.S.Officials at the World Health Organization said Wednesday that it strongly opposes booster shots for all adults in rich countries because the boosters will not help slow down the pandemic. By diverting doses away from unvaccinated people, booster shots will help drive the emergence of more dangerous mutants, the WHO doctors said."I'm afraid that this [booster recommendation] will only lead to more variants. ... And perhaps we're heading into an even more dire situation," WHO chief scientist Dr. Soumya Swaminathan said. The problem with a call for boosters, she said, is that the virus is primarily circulating in unvaccinated people — not in the fully vaccinated. |
Originally Posted by Excargodog
(Post 3282509)
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...ugh-cases.html As of May 1, 2021, CDC transitioned from monitoring all reported vaccine breakthrough cases to focus on identifying and investigating only hospitalized or fatal cases due to any cause. This shift will help maximize the quality of the data collected on cases of greatest clinical and public health importance. |
Originally Posted by HIFLYR
(Post 3282479)
Only the proven tetanus shot, you are comparing proven vaccinations to unproven! No I did not agree to become a human test subject, you guys crack me up all eager to do whatever the government tells you to do.
Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment While I loath wikipedia this link has a lot of info on why you should not just trust the government talking head https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethi..._United_States |
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
(Post 3282661)
I’m hugely skeptical of anything the government puts out, Trump or Biden extremes, they’re all garbage. I thought out the risks and decided some protection was better than none. Half a billion shots and it’s gonna be fully approved next week. What’s your idea then?
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3281437)
Yes. But in real-world application there's a balance/trade-off between antibody and memory cell titers. Observing the chemistry in the lab doesn't tell you how that will play out in the real world.
It's playing out as we speak, but I haven't seen anything indicating that vaccine efficacy against infection is waning due to dropping antibody levels. It most likely will eventually, but are we there yet? The large stage-3 trails from last year are still running, you'd think they'd be seeing something by now in those groups? Jumping the gun on boosters will be very expensive (and profitable to the right people), and is not absolutely zero-risk. Although the risk from boosters is pretty low since the population by definition has already tolerated the vaccine in question once or twice. |
Originally Posted by T1000
(Post 3283378)
you will get covid vaxxed or not. And you will spread it.
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The damn vaxed people are spreading all this. They should wear masks and shelter in place. And wear a big ‘V’. Maybe round them up and put them all someplace safe and padded.
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
(Post 3283391)
Statistically, much less likely and less severe. The number of vaccinated in ICU or, even hospitalized is pretty low.
So then, if this is the proof- among other proof- that the vax is highly effective....why do some of us panic endlessly and support making binding policy about what the unvaccinated are doing? That's on them, and frankly a lot unvaccinated already had a dance with the 'rona before. |
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Originally Posted by block30
(Post 3283397)
directed at no one specifically,
So then, if this is the proof- among other proof- that the vax is highly effective....why do some of us panic endlessly and support making binding policy about what the unvaccinated are doing? That's on them, and frankly a lot unvaccinated already had a dance with the 'rona before. If someone CHOOSES not to take the vaccine, why does that even matter? If you are vaccinated you can catch and spread the virus. If you are unvaccinated, you can catch and spread the virus. Should we mandate diets for overweight people? Should we mandate an exercise program? This would definitely "save more lives" than the Covid shots! At this point, Im curious to hear what you guys think the actual purpose of the Covid vaccine is. |
Originally Posted by Abouttime2fish
(Post 3283396)
The damn vaxed people are spreading all this. They should wear masks and shelter in place. And wear a big ‘V’. Maybe round them up and put them all someplace safe and padded.
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Originally Posted by SIUav8er
(Post 3283411)
This is exactly what I am trying to understand.
If someone CHOOSES not to take the vaccine, why does that even matter? If you are vaccinated you can catch and spread the virus. If you are unvaccinated, you can catch and spread the virus. Should we mandate diets for overweight people? Should we mandate an exercise program? This would definitely "save more lives" than the Covid shots! At this point, Im curious to hear what you guys think the actual purpose of the Covid vaccine is. |
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
(Post 3283391)
Statistically, much less likely and less severe. The number of vaccinated in ICU or, even hospitalized is pretty low.
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Originally Posted by Abouttime2fish
(Post 3283396)
The damn vaxed people are spreading all this. They should wear masks and shelter in place. And wear a big ‘V’. Maybe round them up and put them all someplace safe and padded.
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Originally Posted by T1000
(Post 3283585)
Definitely not less likely.
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Originally Posted by skywatch
(Post 3283593)
Paywall - what is the gist?
Anyways, here's a snippet The Delta variant of the Covid-19 virus appears to be breaking through the protection vaccines provide at a higher rate than previous strains, a Wall Street Journal analysis found, though infections among the fully inoculated remain a tiny fraction of overall cases, and symptoms tend to be milder.U.S. states counted at least 193,204 so-called breakthrough cases among vaccinated people between Jan. 1 and early August, according to data that health departments in 44 states and Washington, D.C., provided to the Journal. The figure represents 0.1% of the more than 136 million fully vaccinated people in those states and the capital. |
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