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-   -   Time to stop politicizing Ivermectin (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/covid19/134915-time-stop-politicizing-ivermectin.html)

Thedude86 09-09-2021 08:50 AM


Originally Posted by AvNav23 (Post 3292492)
I’ve seen you peddle this same snake oil on multiple forums but you never include said “data”. Is this “data” what the CIA broadcasts to your fillings or is what the man is your head says when you’re not wearing your tinfoil hat? Go back to your enlightened posts on horse dewormer and all the “data” that only you have seen. I’m sure it’s all a coverup and conspiracy thank god there’s internet sleuths like you to let us all know what’s really going on. 🤫🙄

Ive provided plenty of data. From doctors, health organizations, hospitals, countries, it’s all there. You on the other hand, can’t provide any data. You can only provide opinions with no data.

Calling it horse dewormer shows how little you pay attention. The WHO, CDC, NIH, and FDA all refer to this drug as HUMAN use. There are two versions. Even though none of these organizations can provide any actual data… they all know it can be used in humans. You don’t even listen to your own experts.

So I ask again, if United mandated Ivermectin, would you set a religious and human rights example by happily complying?

DropTank 09-09-2021 09:01 AM

These are the same people who took anti malarial pills, and drink bleach while shining flashlights up their butts.

Not exactly the smartest people.

AvNav23 09-09-2021 09:08 AM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3292504)
Ive provided plenty of data. From doctors, health organizations, hospitals, countries, it’s all there. You on the other hand, can’t provide any data. You can only provide opinions with no data.

Calling it horse dewormer shows how little you pay attention. The WHO, CDC, NIH, and FDA all refer to this drug as HUMAN use. There are two versions. Even though none of these organizations can provide any actual data… they all know it can be used in humans. You don’t even listen to your own experts.

So I ask again, if United mandated Ivermectin, would you set a religious and human rights example by happily complying?

Your cherry-picked nonsense does not mean a thing. All it proves is that somewhere along the way you learned how to use Google. So serious question… When Ivermectin goes down the same debunked path as previous “miracle cures” will you be man enough to come back on here and say that you were completely full of BS or will you crawl back to your conspiracy theory basement? I know which way I’d guess but I’m not as smart as you.

Thedude86 09-09-2021 09:49 AM


Originally Posted by AvNav23 (Post 3292519)
Your cherry-picked nonsense does not mean a thing. All it proves is that somewhere along the way you learned how to use Google. So serious question… When Ivermectin goes down the same debunked path as previous “miracle cures” will you be man enough to come back on here and say that you were completely full of BS or will you crawl back to your conspiracy theory basement? I know which way I’d guess but I’m not as smart as you.

Yes, I’ll be man enough to admit that because I actually look at data.

I have not cherry picked any data. I have used ALL the data provided. Didn’t select anything. You on the other hand, can’t cherry pick anything because there is no data that exists anywhere in the world that shows ivermectin doesn’t work. All you have is statements and opinions.

Meanwhile, as of a week ago, Israel now has the highest covid cases per capita in the ENTIRE WORLD. Despite being the most vaccinated country in the world behind Iceland. Despite being one of the only countries in the world using boosters. Despite being the first country in the world calling for a 4th shot. Israel has the WORST covid numbers of all. Higher than at anytime pre-vaccine.

https://themedialine.org/life-lines/...ns-per-capita/

AvNav23 09-09-2021 10:11 AM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3292540)
Yes, I’ll be man enough to admit that because I actually look at data.

I have not cherry picked any data. I have used ALL the data provided. Didn’t select anything. You on the other hand, can’t cherry pick anything because there is no data that exists anywhere in the world that shows ivermectin doesn’t work. All you have is statements and opinions.

Meanwhile, as of a week ago, Israel now has the highest covid cases per capita in the ENTIRE WORLD. Despite being the most vaccinated country in the world behind Iceland. Despite being one of the only countries in the world using boosters. Despite being the first country in the world calling for a 4th shot. Israel has the WORST covid numbers of all. Higher than at anytime pre-vaccine.

https://themedialine.org/life-lines/...ns-per-capita/

Okay, okay, okay… you used all the DATA, you gotta be kidding me. That must have taken a loooong time. You either are in desperate need of a hobby, love interest or distraction. Standing by for your double blind peer reviewed study that shows it works not some other dudes sixth sense about it. Please give me another one of your predictably boring and self-aggrandizing replies. I can’t wait. Please get a hobby you can’t be reading Ivermectin studies all day I’m worried about your mental well-being.

Xtreme87 09-09-2021 10:18 AM


Originally Posted by AvNav23 (Post 3292557)
Okay, okay, okay… you used all the DATA, you gotta be kidding me. That must have taken a loooong time. You either are in desperate need of a hobby, love interest or distraction. Standing by for your double blind peer reviewed study that shows it works not some other dudes sixth sense about it. Please give me another one of your predictably boring and self-aggrandizing replies. I can’t wait. Please get a hobby you can’t be reading Ivermectin studies all day I’m worried about your mental well-being.

So why is the most vaccinated country in earth having the worst outcome from the Delta comfort plus variant? Or anyone else of that matter want to chime in and actually answer the question?

I can venture a guess and say that the countries that locked down the hardest in the beginning will have the absolute worst time with these variants. Meanwhile in Sweden...

Coming soon, the Australia and NZ variant.

hoover 09-09-2021 10:55 AM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3292540)
Yes, I’ll be man enough to admit that because I actually look at data.

I have not cherry picked any data. I have used ALL the data provided. Didn’t select anything. You on the other hand, can’t cherry pick anything because there is no data that exists anywhere in the world that shows ivermectin doesn’t work. All you have is statements and opinions.

Meanwhile, as of a week ago, Israel now has the highest covid cases per capita in the ENTIRE WORLD. Despite being the most vaccinated country in the world behind Iceland. Despite being one of the only countries in the world using boosters. Despite being the first country in the world calling for a 4th shot. Israel has the WORST covid numbers of all. Higher than at anytime pre-vaccine.

https://themedialine.org/life-lines/...ns-per-capita/

interesting article. Seems like the factors may be more testing so they're finding more positives, people going back to school/work/religious events, and total reliance on the vaccine that isn't preventing contraction or spreading.
do you happen to know the deaths per million in Israel before the vaccine roll out? That would be the difference in my opinion. If it is statistically fewer deaths with vaccine then maybe its helping and we all just need to let this thing run its course and let people decide their fate.
if I cant protect you from covid but you can protect yourself by getting a shot then I'd say it's pretty much individual choice at this point. The we need to protect the ones who cant get it etc is now moot. I can no longer save your mima or toddler. Seems like personal responsibility needs to make a comeback.

GeeWizDriver 09-09-2021 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by ThumbsUp (Post 3292430)
The horse dewormer narrative isn’t a narrative, it’s real. People are really taking it.

No, the vast majority of people taking this medication are taking the HUMAN pharmaceutical, in an appropriate dosage for HUMANS, based on mounting evidence that early use improves Covid outcomes in HUMANS. There are some knuckleheads so desperate to get their hands on the medication that they seek it out in a form designed for livestock. Not smart. Especially when the correct form of the medication is fairly accessible. But then again, there are also people who don't believe in the obvious cognitive decline of certain prominent individuals.

The "horse de-wormer" narrative has been thrown at ANYONE taking ANY FORM of the medication in order to delegitimize any course of treatment that avoids the cult of the vaccine.

Thedude86 09-09-2021 11:05 AM


Originally Posted by AvNav23 (Post 3292557)
Okay, okay, okay… you used all the DATA, you gotta be kidding me. That must have taken a loooong time. You either are in desperate need of a hobby, love interest or distraction. Standing by for your double blind peer reviewed study that shows it works not some other dudes sixth sense about it. Please give me another one of your predictably boring and self-aggrandizing replies. I can’t wait. Please get a hobby you can’t be reading Ivermectin studies all day I’m worried about your mental well-being.

Peer reviewed from India. India has also been using it nationwide and has some of the best covid numbers worldwide while being only 10% vaccinated and several months ago having Covid cases off the charts before Ivermectin use. Here’s a highlight… healthcare workers working with covid patients were diagnosed with Covid 83% less when using Ivermectin.
https://www.cureus.com/articles/6480...thcare-workers

Not peer reviewed (YET… as stated on report), but posted on a medical site funded by Mark Zuckerburg. Are you saying Zuckerburg would have to have his own fact checkers claim he’s putting out false information? Here’s a highlight… covid infections tested negative 6 days after diagnosis an average of 2.6 times more when using Ivermectin.

It is from Israel, but so far Israel has yet to start using Ivermectin in actual patients. My guess is that they will use it shortly given the fact that they’re the largest hot spot on earth now.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....31.21258081v1

Theres are just 2 of many with new studies coming out all the time. Where are your studies that show Ivermectin doesn’t work that actually show any kind of data and not just opinions or statements? They don’t exist. If they did, the media would be putting it on blast.

Thedude86 09-09-2021 11:13 AM


Originally Posted by hoover (Post 3292579)
interesting article. Seems like the factors may be more testing so they're finding more positives, people going back to school/work/religious events, and total reliance on the vaccine that isn't preventing contraction or spreading.
do you happen to know the deaths per million in Israel before the vaccine roll out? That would be the difference in my opinion. If it is statistically fewer deaths with vaccine then maybe its helping and we all just need to let this thing run its course and let people decide their fate.
if I cant protect you from covid but you can protect yourself by getting a shot then I'd say it's pretty much individual choice at this point. The we need to protect the ones who cant get it etc is now moot. I can no longer save your mima or toddler. Seems like personal responsibility needs to make a comeback.

Agreed. I don’t know the death count, but that is irrelevant with how we have handled this. Even when death counts were low in January the whole world was focused on case numbers.

My fiancé is from Israel and has currently been there the last 2 months. She has not been tested other than when initially arriving and she claims they don’t test anymore or less than the U.S. If the vaccines worked as advertised it shouldn’t matter if kids were going to school or synagogues were opening up. You could literally be peeing on each other and the numbers shouldn’t be anywhere close to what they are if the vaccines worked as initially promised.

The vaccines are inferior. For 60% of people (per Israel and the Mayo Clinic) the vaccines do nothing. Meanwhile, 99.9% of covid infections that have used Ivermectin at the first sign of symptoms have not had ANY serious cases.

jacinth 09-09-2021 11:22 AM

Here is Hawaii, one of the highest vaxed states, an island state, mask mandate for almost 500 days, lockdowns, tourism restrictions.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-3AsolV...name=4096x4096
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-YPiNYV...name=4096x4096

Washington
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-ilhtsV...name=4096x4096

Oregon
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-T7JaCV...name=4096x4096

Vermont
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E9lZXGpU...name=4096x4096

Here is Australia.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-yI7UiV...name=4096x4096

Vaccination in the midst of viral spread is causing viral escape and will continue to do so. If the variants are being caused by vaccines, and the recently vaccinated are potentially super spreaders, it just proves even more that United’s leaders are nazis.
https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-v...C8vYu27YCmB1W0

Scotland
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-JNVSSV...name=4096x4096

The vaccine does not prevent transmission, isn’t preventing infection, is showing rapidly waning effectiveness at preventing hospitalizations and severe covid after 4 months requiring boosters and now pills to help fight off ADE in those vaccinated. Yet United is mandating them… why? It is unethical, immoral, goes against the Nuremberg code, is a horrifying precedent, religious rights are being violated, and it is discriminatory. Everyone should be fighting this.

Thedude86 09-09-2021 11:31 AM


Originally Posted by jacinth (Post 3292598)
The vaccine does not prevent transmission, isn’t preventing infection, is showing rapidly waning effectiveness at preventing hospitalizations and severe covid after 4 months requiring boosters and now pills to help fight off ADE in those vaccinated. Yet United is mandating them… why? It is unethical, immoral, goes against the Nuremberg code, is a horrifying precedent, religious rights are being violated, and it is discriminatory. Everyone should be fighting this.

Doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter that every single highly vaccinated country on earth is seeing their worst covid numbers ever. Just stop being inconsiderate and do as your told. The sooner we can get to Israel’s vaccination rate and start mandating boosters… the sooner we too can be the largest covid hotspot on the face of the planet. Our covid numbers are already heading that way as more people become vaccinated. Momentum is in our favor. Come on team. We can do it. Let’s be the best.

ThumbsUp 09-09-2021 11:33 AM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3292594)

The vaccines are inferior. For 60% of people (per Israel and the Mayo Clinic) the vaccines do nothing. Meanwhile, 99.9% of covid infections that has used Ivermectin at the first sign of symptoms have not had ANY serious cases.

That’s not correct. What the Mayo Clinic preprint said was that the Pfizer vaccine did not prevent symptomatic infection in 58% of cases, while Moderna did not prevent symptomatic infection in 24% in July. Both in this study and in Israel, they have been extremely effective in preventing hospitalization and death. Symptomatic infection, hospitalizations and deaths are all different metrics.

Thedude86 09-09-2021 11:38 AM


Originally Posted by ThumbsUp (Post 3292604)
That’s not correct. What the Mayo Clinic preprint said was that the Pfizer vaccine did not prevent symptomatic infection in 58% of cases, while Moderna did not prevent symptomatic infection in 24% in July. Both in this study and in Israel, they have been extremely effective in prevent hospitalization and death. Symptomatic infection, hospitalizations and deaths are all different metrics.

Maybe I misinterpreted it. Regardless, those numbers are still inferior to Ivermectin as proven by every study and data collection that is willing to provide 100% of their findings. Not hide any data like the FDA and NIH.

Death is still occurring in vaccinated individuals at a higher rate than what was initially promised. Ivermectin has a virtually 100% success at not just preventing death but preventing serious cases when used early on when first diagnosed.

ThumbsUp 09-09-2021 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by GeeWizDriver (Post 3292589)
No, the vast majority of people taking this medication are taking the HUMAN pharmaceutical, in an appropriate dosage for HUMANS, based on mounting evidence that early use improves Covid outcomes in HUMANS. There are some knuckleheads so desperate to get their hands on the medication that they seek it out in a form designed for livestock. Not smart. Especially when the correct form of the medication is fairly accessible. But then again, there are also people who don't believe in the obvious cognitive decline of certain prominent individuals.

The "horse de-wormer" narrative has been thrown at ANYONE taking ANY FORM of the medication in order to delegitimize any course of treatment that avoids the cult of the vaccine.

You may think that because of the news you are watching or these forums, but most people realize that there is a difference. The fact remains, though, that people are taking medicines meant for livestock doses because they are unable to get them through a physician.

DropTank 09-09-2021 11:43 AM


Originally Posted by GeeWizDriver (Post 3292589)
No, the vast majority of people taking this medication are taking the HUMAN pharmaceutical, in an appropriate dosage for HUMANS, based on mounting evidence that early use improves Covid outcomes in HUMANS. There are some knuckleheads so desperate to get their hands on the medication that they seek it out in a form designed for livestock. Not smart. Especially when the correct form of the medication is fairly accessible. But then again, there are also people who don't believe in the obvious cognitive decline of certain prominent individuals.

The "horse de-wormer" narrative has been thrown at ANYONE taking ANY FORM of the medication in order to delegitimize any course of treatment that avoids the cult of the vaccine.

"Mounting Evidence"

The detractors say "neigh" but you guys saddle up with your Don Quixote like veracity that should have been sent to pasture.
So bridle your anger, and try to remain stable.

AvNav23 09-09-2021 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3292607)
Maybe I misinterpreted it. Regardless, those numbers are still inferior to Ivermectin as proven by every study and data collection that is willing to provide 100% of their findings. Not hide any data like the FDA and NIH.

Death is still occurring in vaccinated individuals at a higher rate than what was initially promised. Ivermectin has a virtually 100% success at not just preventing death but preventing serious cases when used early on when first diagnosed.

Virtually 100%. YGBFKM! Was this in the India study that was neither blind nor unbiased or was this in the unreviewed Zuckerberg study? It’s so hard to keep track when you see only what you want to see. I think at this point it is imperative that you box up all your research and send it off to all the best research clinics and universities in the country to let them know what you’ve stumbled upon. Oh wait I forgot they’re all part of the grand conspiracy designed to keep Ivermectin off the streets even though it is humanity’s only hope. Honestly do you hear how crazy that sounds?!?! At least you’re always good for a laugh! Keep that tinfoil hat on tight!

GolferNJ 09-09-2021 12:40 PM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3292607)
Maybe I misinterpreted it. Regardless, those numbers are still inferior to Ivermectin as proven by every study and data collection that is willing to provide 100% of their findings. Not hide any data like the FDA and NIH.

Death is still occurring in vaccinated individuals at a higher rate than what was initially promised. Ivermectin has a virtually 100% success at not just preventing death but preventing serious cases when used early on when first diagnosed.

You misinterpreted data by casually glancing over it after a google search? I don’t believe it! I’ll go out on a limb and say your PhD dissertation went much better. What was it in again, statistics or microbiology?

Thedude86 09-09-2021 06:03 PM


Originally Posted by GolferNJ (Post 3292643)
You misinterpreted data by casually glancing over it after a google search? I don’t believe it! I’ll go out on a limb and say your PhD dissertation went much better. What was it in again, statistics or microbiology?

Its not a Google search. I’ll admit I didn’t break down the specifics but The Mayo Clinic says it’s only 42% effective. Are you more educated on the vaccines than they are?

Thedude86 09-09-2021 06:12 PM


Originally Posted by AvNav23 (Post 3292631)
Virtually 100%. YGBFKM! Was this in the India study that was neither blind nor unbiased or was this in the unreviewed Zuckerberg study? It’s so hard to keep track when you see only what you want to see. I think at this point it is imperative that you box up all your research and send it off to all the best research clinics and universities in the country to let them know what you’ve stumbled upon. Oh wait I forgot they’re all part of the grand conspiracy designed to keep Ivermectin off the streets even though it is humanity’s only hope. Honestly do you hear how crazy that sounds?!?! At least you’re always good for a laugh! Keep that tinfoil hat on tight!

So you’re saying Mark Zuckerburg would fact check his own funded research? You’re saying he’s putting out false information? There are numerous studies and data points from health officials around the world. Including the head of the Tokyo Medical Association. Are you saying he needs to step down so Japan can listen to your medical expertise instead.

btw, still waiting for you to find just ONE study that actually provides data instead of opinions that show Ivermectin is ineffective. Just one. That’s all im
asking for. If you’re so certain it’s making people drop like flies it should be pretty easy for you to find.

Also, while you’re searching for that data that doesn’t exist, can you also find just ONE doctor anywhere that’s used Ivermectin that advises against it? Again, just one. That’s all I’m asking for. It was prescribed 88,000 times last week in HUMANS just in the U.S. If the data is as clear as you say, it shouldn’t be that hard to find a doctor that doesn’t support it. Waiting…

AvNav23 09-09-2021 06:40 PM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3292912)
So you’re saying Mark Zuckerburg would fact check his own funded research? You’re saying he’s putting out false information? There are numerous studies and data points from health officials around the world. Including the head of the Tokyo Medical Association. Are you saying he needs to step down so Japan can listen to your medical expertise instead.

btw, still waiting for you to find just ONE study that actually provides data instead of opinions that show Ivermectin is ineffective. Just one. That’s all im
asking for. If you’re so certain it’s making people drop like flies it should be pretty easy for you to find.

Also, while you’re searching for that data that doesn’t exist, can you also find just ONE doctor anywhere that’s used Ivermectin that advises against it? Again, just one. That’s all I’m asking for. It was prescribed 88,000 times last week in HUMANS just in the U.S. If the data is as clear as you say, it shouldn’t be that hard to find a doctor that doesn’t support it. Waiting…

Well if it was prescribed 88,000 times to people like you then all it proves is that doctors will do anything to just get tin foil hat people like you out of their office.

As far as finding ya a study I don’t feel like internet sleuthing and you are so good at finding research on this from highly reputable sources 🙄. So why don’t you look into it and get back to me. I’m waiting…

The fact that you have been endlessly repeating this same tired set of “facts” and “DATA” over and over again is exhausting and unconvincing to everyone. How about you just 🤐 and let the science and research play out and then I’ll be ready to accept your statement of being completely full of &*it.

And before you start again I’ll highlight your greatest hits. But but India…studies…data…Israel…numbers… 🥱

Thedude86 09-09-2021 06:54 PM


Originally Posted by AvNav23 (Post 3292923)
Well if it was prescribed 88,000 times to people like you then all it proves is that doctors will do anything to just get tin foil hat people like you out of their office.

As far as finding ya a study I don’t feel like internet sleuthing and you are so good at finding research on this from highly reputable sources 🙄. So why don’t you look into it and get back to me. I’m waiting…

The fact that you have been endlessly repeating this same tired set of “facts” and “DATA” over and over again is exhausting and unconvincing to everyone. How about you just 🤐 and let the science and research play out and then I’ll be ready to accept your statement of being completely full of &*it.

And before you start again I’ll highlight your greatest hits. But but India…studies…data…Israel…numbers… 🥱

The science and data are in my favor. You’re going to be waiting a very long time. I’ve provided numerous examples. You’re so certain, but can’t even provide one example. Very convincing. Go back to believing in Santa Claus and unicorns because someone somewhere told you they were real once.

Hedley 09-09-2021 07:01 PM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3292930)
Go back to believing in Santa Claus and unicorns because someone somewhere told you they were real once.

Kind of chuckled at the irony of this comment being under a religious thread.

AvNav23 09-09-2021 08:09 PM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3292930)
The science and data are in my favor. You’re going to be waiting a very long time. I’ve provided numerous examples. You’re so certain, but can’t even provide one example. Very convincing. Go back to believing in Santa Claus and unicorns because someone somewhere told you they were real once.

Good lord you’ve provided nothing but nonsense and what’s the problem with believing in unicorns and Santa. Both of those things are far more believable than your “research” and thank you for being honest about my certainty being highly convincing I am truly glad I have helped you see the light. I’ll sleep better knowing I’ve helped one more wayward soul. 🙏

Thedude86 09-09-2021 08:22 PM


Originally Posted by AvNav23 (Post 3292982)
Good lord you’ve provided nothing but nonsense and what’s the problem with believing in unicorns and Santa. Both of those things are far more believable than your “research” and thank you for being honest about my certainty being highly convincing I am truly glad I have helped you see the light. I’ll sleep better knowing I’ve helped one more wayward soul. 🙏

translation…

FDA says there is no evidence that 2+2=4 despite citing no proof otherwise.

Mathematicians around the world… “actually, 2+2 does equal 4”

AvNav… “trust the experts!! If you believe 2+2=4 you’re a conspiracy theorist. If you believe in math at all you’re a murderer!!”

worstpilotever 09-09-2021 08:26 PM

I have always thought Santa would do better if he had unicorns driving his sleigh rather than reindeer. (As long as they were vaccinated, of course)

Thedude86 09-09-2021 09:27 PM


Originally Posted by GolferNJ (Post 3293015)
Why are you pushing Ivermectin on a thread about religious exemptions? I’d say you’re like a broken record, but at least a broken record is worth listening to once.

I asked somebody if they would be ok if United mandated Ivermectin since some on here claim a private company can mandate its employees to do whatever they want. It’s obvious most only believe that as long as it’s something they agree with. The precedent has been set. You agree with it now, you might not agree with it when it comes to something else in the future.

beetlehog 09-10-2021 01:55 AM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3293024)
I asked somebody if they would be ok if United mandated Ivermectin since some on here claim a private company can mandate its employees to do whatever they want. It’s obvious most only believe that as long as it’s something they agree with. The precedent has been set. You agree with it now, you might not agree with it when it comes to something else in the future.

Golfer is just one of the many on this website who can't see what is going on and how bad it is for all of us because as you just wrote, "he agrees with it". This government is completely out of control and I ask all of the people here who voted for Biden, are you still proud of that vote??? Honest question. The speech from yesterday afternoon should scare the hell out of all Americans and we should be marching to D.C. immediately. This President's poll numbers are now in the 30s and has no political capital but he still figures he can do this. Is it just a distraction from Afghanistan or is this gonna really happen? It seems shocking to me that his poll numbers are this bad considering he got more votes than Obama. It is almost like he has no base and got no where near 81 million votes. Just sayin.

skywatch 09-10-2021 03:38 AM


Originally Posted by DropTank (Post 3292610)
"Mounting Evidence"

The detractors say "neigh" but you guys saddle up with your Don Quixote like veracity that should have been sent to pasture.
So bridle your anger, and try to remain stable.

well, if you can’t be right, be clever…appreciate the dad jokes, always! Seriously!

symbian simian 09-10-2021 07:13 AM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3293024)
I asked somebody if they would be ok if United mandated Ivermectin since some on here claim a private company can mandate its employees to do whatever they want. It’s obvious most only believe that as long as it’s something they agree with. The precedent has been set. You agree with it now, you might not agree with it when it comes to something else in the future.

If it was the approved for human version, and prescribed by a doctor, and has no real side effects, and was recommended by the CDC, I would have no problem with it, just like uhh, getting the vaccine?

JurgenKlopp 09-10-2021 07:19 AM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3293024)
I asked somebody if they would be ok if United mandated Ivermectin since some on here claim a private company can mandate its employees to do whatever they want. It’s obvious most only believe that as long as it’s something they agree with. The precedent has been set. You agree with it now, you might not agree with it when it comes to something else in the future.

Respect to this post. At last he has formed a conscious argument in only one paragraph and only has a few grammatical errors. Guy is really turning the corner. If he keeps it up we'll be heading to the feed store in a couple weeks.

worstpilotever 09-10-2021 07:26 AM


Originally Posted by beetlehog (Post 3293052)
Golfer is just one of the many on this website who can't see what is going on and how bad it is for all of us because as you just wrote, "he agrees with it". This government is completely out of control and I ask all of the people here who voted for Biden, are you still proud of that vote??? Honest question. The speech from yesterday afternoon should scare the hell out of all Americans and we should be marching to D.C. immediately. This President's poll numbers are now in the 30s and has no political capital but he still figures he can do this. Is it just a distraction from Afghanistan or is this gonna really happen? It seems shocking to me that his poll numbers are this bad considering he got more votes than Obama. It is almost like he has no base and got no where near 81 million votes. Just sayin.

sorry, the guy in his 30s is the Donald. Biden is about 46-47%

Tfork 09-11-2021 07:57 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bFguCdJfLA

Excargodog 09-11-2021 09:00 AM

Will mandates work?
 
My experience with US Civil Service employees lead me to doubt that. While in the military I once witnessed the firing of a GS-8. The woman was capable of doing her job, she simply didn’t want to do THAT job. She’d been a GS-9 in an organization on the other side of town which Congress in its infinite wisdom had decided to collocate with a similar organization 1300 mike’s away. But because she hadn’t wanted to relocate, she slid into the GS-9 slot when it came open. Except it was obvious from the start that she didn’t want to do it and she refused to do it, stating she was not yet appropriately trained for the job. The specific issue, I believe, was that she had been trained in WordPerfect version x.yz and her computer had WordPerfect x.yz+3 on it, a difference that it would have been really difficult for a non expert to even discern. My subordinate (she was ostensibly his secretary) was a persistent cuss, sending her off to WordPerfect class training, spending the requisite full year on a Performance Improvement Plan, and when after a year she still was refusing to work, starting the process of firing her. The package of documentation he sent me exceeded the weight of the woman.

Not having been born yesterday, I contacted the local EO office and had them investigate the subordinate organization, contacted the union shop steward and ask to have him to have anyone who had an opinion on this issue or wanted to support the woman to come and see me, and got an opinion from the base JAG on the legal sufficiency. Even the woman’s friends said she could do the work, just didn’t want to. In less than a month I approved the paperwork and it got sent forward.

It was about 15 months later that I testified in federal court as to the review I had done. After a three day trial the woman was officially fired by Civil Service. She had not, as far as anyone could tell, done any productive work for three years. The reviews (discriminated against due to race, gender, age) went on for another three years

From a recent Washington Post:


The first coronavirus plan for most federal employees, announced at the end of July, required employees to “attest” to their status and threatened discipline only if someone was discovered to have lied about their vaccination status. But little was done to push that plan along before Thursday’s was announced.

“The attestation [phase] failed,” said Jason Briefel, partner at Shaw Bransford & Roth, who represents several federal employee associations, including the Senior Executives Association, which represents about 1,700 career senior leaders in government. “There were templates, there was guidance, but it appears there’s a major disconnect between the center of government and [agencies’] ability to navigate this change on the ground.”

“We did not feel the ‘throw it over the fence to the agencies’ strategy was the right one,” Briefel said.

The Treasury Department, for example, planned to start testing only in mid-October, Hooper said. The White House budget office had promised agencies that it would provide access to a contractor, but not until late fall.

Most officials agree that a mandate will be more simple to implement than the earlier policy. But if the traditional system for punishing employees is used for those refusing vaccines, as Psaki suggested, another raft of complications would come into play.

The administration, in guidance to agencies sent in August after the first vaccine plan was announced, recommended that employees who refuse to get shots be placed on administrative leave, a form of paid time off used widely for short-term absences. It is also used when a manager proposed removing an employee, with final action within 30 days.

But in recent years, the policy was widely considered to have been abused by managers who wanted to sideline troublesome workers while misconduct or poor performance reports were adjudicated. Managers were often slow to respond to employees’ responses to proposed removals and to issue final removal notices, so the process dragged out.

Congress, intending to curb abuses, passed a law in late 2016 that severely restricted the use of paid leave. But the Office of Personnel Management did not issue regulations to implement it, so managers still have wide latitude to use paid leave for long periods.

The OPM rule book lists dozens of reasons for allowing paid leave, such as donating an organ, house-hunting before a job transfer and attending the funeral of a relative in the military. Some employees remain on paid leave while they challenge demotions and other punishments.

“What’s the incentive for someone to get vaccinated, who doesn’t want to do it, when they could get a paid vacation?” asked Todd Wells, executive director of the Federal Managers Association, which represents 200,000 managers and senior executives across the government, many in national security roles. He cited naval shipyards that rely on thousands of employees to maintain vessels round-the-clock.” We’re trying to literally keep the ships running and you’re saying, go home for a few months and take a vacation.”

Cathie McQuisten, deputy general counsel for the American Federation of Government Employees, the largest federal employee union with 700,000 members, said that employees were entitled to due process. She said she expects that any move to discipline or fire employees who do not comply with the mandate would not start until “day 76” of the grace period to get shots.

“My understanding is that before that, you’re not in violation,” she said

Thedude86 09-11-2021 09:31 AM


Originally Posted by symbian simian (Post 3293177)
If it was the approved for human version, and prescribed by a doctor, and has no real side effects, and was recommended by the CDC, I would have no problem with it, just like uhh, getting the vaccine?

1. Does a recommendation from the NIH count? Or are you the one that gets to decide which government agencies we listen to and which ones we don’t to fit your argument?

2a. It actually is approved by the FDA for human use. It just doesn’t have a high enough profit margin to be specifically approved for Covid use.
2b. It actually has been prescribed by thousands of doctors (in this country)
2c. It actually has no real side effects unless you overdose for being an idiot. I can overdose on Tylenol if I don’t take it as directed. If side effects are your issue… it’s listed side effects are no worse than Tylenol or Advil per the FDA. If side effects are your issue… the vaccine’s listed side effects are much worse, and while rare, does include death. Per the FDA. If you’re worried about side effects from Ivermectin but not the vaccine… you’re a hypocrite.

2d. Ivermectin is recommended for refugees to the U.S. BY THE CDC to be used for 2 days before entering the country. The CDC’s website does say it’s recommended for other illnesses, but last I checked we weren’t in a global horse illness pandemic.

3. Why’s it matter if it’s recommended by the CDC or not? Your argument is that a private company can do whatever it wants. What if it’s something not medically related? You clearly only believe that because it’s something you agree with…. this time.

beetlehog 09-11-2021 09:36 AM


Originally Posted by worstpilotever (Post 3293189)
sorry, the guy in his 30s is the Donald. Biden is about 46-47%

If you believe that I really feel sorry for you. Why don't you go read the latest crap the Economist put out. Even the party of Davos knows this guy is finished. You are just too stupid to see it.

symbian simian 09-11-2021 01:31 PM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3293772)
1. Does a recommendation from the NIH count? Or are you the one that gets to decide which government agencies we listen to and which ones we don’t to fit your argument?

2a. It actually is approved by the FDA for human use. It just doesn’t have a high enough profit margin to be specifically approved for Covid use.
2b. It actually has been prescribed by thousands of doctors (in this country)
2c. It actually has no real side effects unless you overdose for being an idiot. I can overdose on Tylenol if I don’t take it as directed. If side effects are your issue… it’s listed side effects are no worse than Tylenol or Advil per the FDA. If side effects are your issue… the vaccine’s listed side effects are much worse, and while rare, does include death. Per the FDA. If you’re worried about side effects from Ivermectin but not the vaccine… you’re a hypocrite.

2d. Ivermectin is recommended for refugees to the U.S. BY THE CDC to be used for 2 days before entering the country. The CDC’s website does say it’s recommended for other illnesses, but last I checked we weren’t in a global horse illness pandemic.

3. Why’s it matter if it’s recommended by the CDC or not? Your argument is that a private company can do whatever it wants. What if it’s something not medically related? You clearly only believe that because it’s something you agree with…. this time.

Show me were the NIH recommended Ivermectin , studies from third parties in pubmed don't count. The CDC does not recommend Ivermectin for covid. It matters to me if the CDC recommends something, because I know I can't do my own research and I reluctantly somewhat trust the CDC. I know Ivermectin is a wonderful drug for humans against parasitic worms hence the Nobel prize, and has shown promise against some viral diseases, but I am not convinced it's a wonder drug against covid, and has not been prescribed/recommended for use against covid, at least not in any significant number.
Having said that, it's cheap, and has low side effects, so I would have no problem if it there was a big scale clinical trial here in the US. I would not hesitate to join. I do not believe there is a big pharma conspiracy to keep us hooked on expensive drugs, and that the governments are complicit in this. So https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consum...event-covid-19 to me means we are probably stuck with the vaccine and masks for now.

You keep reciting the numbers in Israel and Iceland as a warning vaccines don't work, but although their numbers are higher than they were earlier, they are still far lower, especially death rates, when compared to the states, and especially with individual states with lower vaccination rates. Pretty much all children in the States are required to get their shots before going to school (and the places where they don't suffer from it, see measles), military, same, and yes, I have no problem with an employer mandating that as a condition of employment. Might come back and bite me in the a$$, if they can enforce that, what else can they mandate, yes, you are right to be worried about slope.

ShyGuy 09-11-2021 01:41 PM


Originally Posted by Thedude86 (Post 3293024)
I asked somebody if they would be ok if United mandated Ivermectin since some on here claim a private company can mandate its employees to do whatever they want. It’s obvious most only believe that as long as it’s something they agree with. The precedent has been set. You agree with it now, you might not agree with it when it comes to something else in the future.

The difference is:

FDA approved for humans above age 12
Proven scientifically to help against the novel Coronavirus (and most variants - so far)


The precedent already exists. Employers won't force a drug/vaccine that is under EUA. But once it's approved for normal use, roll up your sleeves.

SonicFlyer 09-11-2021 05:06 PM


Originally Posted by AvNav23 (Post 3292429)
No whats disappointing is a group of “religious” people not doing what they can to help those that are medically unable or those who are too young to get a vaccine stay safer.

False premise. Choosing to get the vaccine or not has nothing to do with other people.

worstpilotever 09-11-2021 07:51 PM

You don’t know how vaccines work, do you?


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