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-   -   Vaccine Mandate Exemption (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/covid19/135149-vaccine-mandate-exemption.html)

skywatch 10-15-2021 06:44 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3309656)
They didn't exempt themselves, PLEASE try to get basic government facts right. The constitution exempted them.

serious question - if the legislative branch of the Federal government cannot be mandated, how is it that all government contractors (airlines) can?

galaxy flyer 10-15-2021 10:58 AM


Originally Posted by skywatch (Post 3309675)
serious question - if the legislative branch of the Federal government cannot be mandated, how is it that all government contractors (airlines) can?

Contracts are signed by the EXECUTIVE branch, they are instruments between the Federal agency purchasing the goods/services and the vendor, hence subject to the EO.

Staff members of Congress fall under Article I, not Article II. Gotta love people citing all kinds of opinions and exhibit continued ignorance of the basics of the USG.

rickair7777 10-15-2021 11:22 AM


Originally Posted by skywatch (Post 3309675)
serious question - if the legislative branch of the Federal government cannot be mandated, how is it that all government contractors (airlines) can?

It's a side effect of how the government was structured.

The legislative, judicial, and executive branches are intentionally separate for balance of power reasons.

The need for separation of power obviously applies to their core government functions. Now it might not be unreasonable to have the executive (being the "operations department" or J3 in mil parlance) take care of routine admin and logistics for the other two branches, simply for efficiency.

But that's not the way it was implemented... each of the three branches is almost totally self-contained in the sense that they don't rely on each other for care and feeding. For efficiency they are all supported by the GSA, but even that is a separate entity not falling under any of the three branches (it's funding and leadership appointments require both congress and the WH to concur).

The employer vaccine mandate is implemented as an executive order to OSHA, directing them to use their health and safety authority to mandate vaccinations. OSHA works for the executive, and has specific regulatory authorities. While it has authority over most workplaces, there are a few exceptions. For example the executive lets the DoD do their own osha stuff for obvious reasons. Same with FAA and airplanes. Since OSHA works for the executive it's authority inherently does not apply at all to the other two branches.

The federal mandate is just the customer defining the terms of the business arrangement, since the executive contracts for airline service (and most or all majors have those contracts). Apparently the terms of those contracts don't specifically exclude vaccine mandates, and the terms probably do have some sort of force majeure for health, safety, etc.

Bottom line, the executive cannot tell the other two branches how to run their organizations. The legislative and judicial could presumably implement their own internal vaccine mandates.

Also the ENTIRE federal government, all branches, could be subject to a vaccine mandate if congress passed a bill to that effect, POTUS signed it into law, and the courts didn't uphold any objections. But the executive can't do it alone.

skywatch 10-15-2021 11:44 AM

[QUOTE=galaxy flyer;3309837]Contracts are signed by the EXECUTIVE branch, they are instruments between the Federal agency purchasing the goods/services and the vendor, hence subject to the EO.

Staff members of Congress fall under Article I, not Article II. Gotta love people citing all kinds of opinions and exhibit continued ignorance of the basics of the USG.[/QUOTE

Despite the childish condescending add on, thanks for answering the question. I’ll try harder.

skywatch 10-15-2021 11:45 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3309845)
It's a side effect of how the government was structured.

The legislative, judicial, and executive branches are intentionally separate for balance of power reasons.

The need for separation of power obviously applies to their core government functions. Now it might not be unreasonable to have the executive (being the "operations department" or J3 in mil parlance) take care of routine admin and logistics for the other two branches, simply for efficiency.

But that's not the way it was implemented... each of the three branches is almost totally self-contained in the sense that they don't rely on each other for care and feeding. For efficiency they are all supported by the GSA, but even that is a separate entity not falling under any of the three branches (it's funding and leadership appointments require both congress and the WH to concur).

The employer vaccine mandate is implemented as an executive order to OSHA, directing them to use their health and safety authority to mandate vaccinations. OSHA works for the executive, and has specific regulatory authorities. While it has authority over most workplaces, there are a few exceptions. For example the executive lets the DoD do their own osha stuff for obvious reasons. Same with FAA and airplanes. Since OSHA works for the executive it's authority inherently does not apply at all to the other two branches.

The federal mandate is just the customer defining the terms of the business arrangement, since the executive contracts for airline service (and most or all majors have those contracts). Apparently the terms of those contracts don't specifically exclude vaccine mandates, and the terms probably do have some sort of force majeure for health, safety, etc.

Bottom line, the executive cannot tell the other two branches how to run their organizations. The legislative and judicial could presumably implement their own internal vaccine mandates.

Also the ENTIRE federal government, all branches, could be subject to a vaccine mandate if congress passed a bill to that effect, POTUS signed it into law, and the courts didn't uphold any objections. But the executive can't do it alone.

Thanks. That is clearer.

galaxy flyer 10-15-2021 12:47 PM

[QUOTE=skywatch;3309851]

Originally Posted by galaxy flyer (Post 3309837)
Contracts are signed by the EXECUTIVE branch, they are instruments between the Federal agency purchasing the goods/services and the vendor, hence subject to the EO.

Staff members of Congress fall under Article I, not Article II. Gotta love people citing all kinds of opinions and exhibit continued ignorance of the basics of the USG.[/QUOTE

Despite the childish condescending add on, thanks for answering the question. I’ll try harder.

Several posters here offered opinions that were innocent of how the government is structured, but their opinion was tilted in a certain political direction. I don’t object, and likely support that tilt, but facts are facts. If one doesn’t know, perhaps humility requires prior research or, better yet, education needs improvement on being citizen instead of political pawn.

dustrpilot 10-15-2021 01:28 PM

They are still US citizens, walking amongst us.
If it’s required for us it should be for them too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

av8or 10-15-2021 02:41 PM


Originally Posted by Halon1211 (Post 3305144)
It’s pretty sad and pathetic all the people that like to mock having freedom

I bet if you lived in a country like where I’m from you wouldn’t be saying crap like that. Because you would know that’s no joke

I can’t blame em. They’ve been taught that words are violence, private property is tyranny…. and there are an infinite number of genders. It stands to reason that they think freedom “just happens” and that it doesn’t have to be vigilantly protected.

HIFLYR 10-15-2021 03:12 PM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3309656)
They didn't exempt themselves, PLEASE try to get basic government facts right. The constitution exempted them.

Thier aids etc are not correct! Regardless They should have all stepped up for the shot they want to mandate.

galaxy flyer 10-15-2021 03:20 PM


Originally Posted by dustrpilot (Post 3309887)
They are still US citizens, walking amongst us.
If it’s required for us it should be for them too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, amend the Constitution to eliminate separation of powers. I dint think you’d want that. Should they be vaccinated? Yes. Should it be mandated? No.


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