“Reasonable Accommodation”
 

Serious question here… What would you all believe is reasonable accommodation for those who cannot or will not get vaccinated? Should the Company offer them other jobs? For example, at TK, in the CPO, at Willis, ramper?

Testing in lieu of and normal jobs. Seems to be used in a lot of other places. But then again, if you're vaccinated, you can get it too, so I'm not really sure what the point of that would be either other than making people who have a fear of COVID more comfortable.

Company-paid testing at some determined interval, and then get on with your job. Since both vaccinated and unvaccinated can still get and spread the virus, I don’t see the point?? The powers at be need to establish the facts and then work towards the right policies based on those facts; Not try to use those facts and manipulate them in order to get people to do what they want them to do.

Unpaid leave until (& as long as) nationwide transmission rate is below 1.0.

Also temp assignment to remote based work (reservations etc...) at whatever pay that is.

Nothing that violates pilot seniority or would otherwise require MR.

Ok, then what do you do when you’re not allowed to fly into a country because you’re not vaccinated? Also, it could limit where you can divert into in case of medical or mechanical issues. A divert could cause someone who is unvaccinated to be a two week resident at your own expense.

Obviously, if you’re not vaccinated you’d have to be removed from a Global fleet and you’d be forced to fly domestic only.

I agree with this.

That is unreasonable

I was wondering how long it would take someone to start the next vaccine thread after they cleaned it all up.

Why is it unreasonable? Please explain…

My opinion is as valid as yours. Statutory and case law are on my side, but it will ultimately be decided by a judge (not you or me).

So 593 employees are being terminated, including 20 pilots and a little less than 100 FA’s.

United is working around 2,000 religious and medical exemptions. I honestly don’t believe there is any reasonable accommodation that would allow a pilot to remain a pilot. I agree that offering them a remote position (if qualified) at that pay (ie, reservation agent) is about the only reasonable accommodation that works for pilots.

I wonder how long before the balance of those pilots included in the 2,000 total employees are removed from the pilot seniority list.

The really disturbing part in this entire situation is that most of the employees of this company don’t see a problem with this. Where does it end??

The ones that may be terminated either did not request a reasonable accommodation or did not meet whatever threshold was established for a valid request.

Amongst the pilots that were among those granted an accommodation what would prevent them from flying domestically if they are already in a NB position? I don’t understand how being unvaccinated prevents them from doing their job. The system that we have under the LOA seems to be working pretty well.

The LOA is no longer in effect.

This will be decided by a judge.

Yes, but this thread is on a hypothetical.

Why did it go away? Was it a date or a metric was met? That’s unfortunate because it might have provided some leverage where management would need to engage with Alpa.

The LOA I’m referring to was about vaccination. The company gave 30-day notice of termination last month, so it’s over.

understood. More than likely that’s Either party could give 30 day notice. Ours goes away when WHO declares pandemic over. Which is some leverage as right now they still have to cover unvaxxed sick leave. Sounds like you might have more than one pandemic Loa?

“reasonable accommodation” doesn’t require the employee (pilot) to fill same job position or require company to use pilot pay scales… they’ll probably be offered call center positions that stay at home or unpaid leave. There has to be a pilot on here that has been approved… bueller?

They already said that the reasonable accommodation for religious purposes was unpaid leave.

Which is not an unreasonable religious accommodation

That actually is reasonable. You can hang out and keep your seniority until this stuff blows over to the point that they can relax vaccination mandates. Maybe make a few bucks as a telcommuting reservation agent in the meantime.

None of the other jobs pay anywhere close to our pay scales. Adult decisions, have adult consequences…

True. I now know many captains that feel like they were forced into getting a vaccine to prevent a disease they already had and it's clearly not working to prevent. 6.2 billion doses given worldwide. 7.5 billion people. Here we are still with travel restrictions, still testing left and right, still worried about spiking etc, people still wearing stupid ass masks etc. Nowhere close to normal. Guess how much those captains will be working to fix anything from now on?.....I for one don't give a damn about the company I work for anymore. I'll work here long enough to get as much money from it as possible. I'll go out of my way to fix nothing that's not my responsibility. These captains will fly as slow or as fast as they like. And no, they won't quit. They'll go home happy knowing they made 40k this month and didn't lift a finger to fix any issues for this rotten ass woke political company. BTW, I'm not miserable at work. I enjoy just about all the people I work with and the flying. Our management and leadership have disrespected us.. CORE4 doesn't involve forcing your people to do things medically they don't need nor want. The other airlines have not gone down this path. I guess we'll see, but I don't think they will.

Welcome to the world of CORE2. It’s not such a bad place. Just realize that we’re nothing but contract labor, comply with SOP’s, pull as much money out of this place as you can, enjoy your time off, then retire comfortably and don’t look back. Not a bad gig.

^^^^^My sentiments exactly^^^^^
I will not do anything extra, will never extend my duty day or go the extra mile. We are a line item on a spreadsheet.

ALOT of pilots I talk to feel the same way. Not going to be good for the company. How's our contract going?

Haven’t you all learned anything from the pandemic??? Our jobs are perishable!!! If you don’t take care of our customers, the rest is academic. Yes, I believe that everyone should be vaccinated, but I also staunchly support an individual’s right to choose. But like anything in life, choices have consequences.

I believe that United is requiring vaccinations so that we can beat our competitors to the punch. Also, if you are on a global fleet, the decision has largely been taken out of the control of United.

my last LOE the evaluator spent 69% of the brief time spewing core4 nonsense….i wanted to puke

👍
 

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+10000000000

I just tell them that my job isn’t to be a “game changer”, it’s to simply comply with SOP’s, do the job the way I have been trained, and then go home. The core 4 lecture usually ends right there and we get on with the operational brief and sim session.

Did you just figure this out? We've never been anything more than labor. Some company management teams choose to treat us better than others, but it's simply a business strategy/decision. Life is much simpler if you make decisions about how you conduct yourself professionally with this understanding . Waive, if appropriate, go the extra mile, hand out cards, etc... if you want - just don't do it because you think UAL likes you.

Some post BK/merger hires criticized pilots for saying exactly what you just typed. Maybe they'll understand the sentiment now. This 'offense, however, will not gain much traction in the outrage department compared to post BK UAL. In short - I feel you....but I don't really have much sympathy.

My money is on Zombie apocalypse. Only survivors in North America will have solid gold bars and guns. They will then breed with Scandinavians

but if you didn’t get the vaccine with the microchip how will you be warned of the coming zombie apocalypse?

Without the chip you'll never get your Zombie SelCal.

As for the original question, I agree with that posted previously: Remote internal work as qualified for it and at the salary provided, or unpaid leave. We're pilots. If we aren't working as pilots why would the company pay us as pilots?

Because, if I can get paid pilot wages to work remote reservations, believe you me, I have that condition / sincerely held belief as well. Somebody asked where does it end? Well, right there I answered why that's a problem. Except case law already says I can't become a Seventh Day Adventist to get out of working Saturday, and getting paid pilot wages to work from home puts more than de minimus burden on the company.

This is interesting because religion is still a protected class on the level of race and sex. If China and South America say no women pilots or no back pilots, that may elevate one's sex or race to the level of corporate inconvenience currently demonstrated by religion. At that point it would be legal to fire based on sex and race, no? And all that based on what other countries are doing.

Basically, this situation is all wrong. The company and ALPA are pitting employees against each other. We are at a tipping point. Where does it stop? Firefighters, police, medical personnel? The next will be veterans with medical benefits or retirement pay. This is only the first attack. Submit, go along, accept….and you’ll be fine. All those before you were expendable…right? It’s a personal choice.

Reasonable accommodation must be made, which means the company incurs no more then de minimus costs.

And while I don't like seeing workgroups pitted against each other, if there was an exemption carved out that gave someone weekends off for the entirety of their career, despite the requirements for the rest; let them avoid work that was universally reviled, or gain work that was universally desired; or allowed them to jump the privilege afforded by seniority/longevity in station or at the company, not only would that be a hardship paid by the rest of us, but it would encourage others to abuse it.

The logical thing to do is have an "anti-body" test. Test your immune system. If you're good to go, then you should be left alone by government and your employer. That's a no brainer.

Possibly, but I’m vaxed, so I’m safe…..and there are all those pesky customers we fly with every day that pay our mortgages that aren’t vaxed…but they are good to fly….just not that pilot or maintainer that keeps us moving….unless they want to buy a ticket…then they are good….just not in the workforce…then they’re bad.