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Two shots not enough…
Will three be enough? We won’t know for another six months or so if a third immunization provides longer lasting neutralizing antibodies - the kind that keep you from GETTING and SPREADING COVID 19 - any longer than the first 6 months, or if we’ve already hit the law of diminishing returns and even totally healthy will be susceptible whenever we’ve gone six months without a booster. And that’s important, because I doubt that every six month boosters are logistically or politically possible, not in the US and certainly not in the entire world population, many of whom have not yet had their FIRST immunization yet.
https://i.ibb.co/w4W7qR0/97-AF9-C01-...891726-CA5.jpg An excerpt: People vaccinated with two shots of the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine in January and February had a 51% increased chance of contracting the virus in July compared to those who were vaccinated in March or April, a new Israeli study published in Nature Communications has shown. The team of researchers from KI Institute worked with doctors from KSM Research and Innovation and used data provided by Maccabi Health Services to conduct a retrospective cohort study comparing the incidence rates of breakthrough infections and COVID-19-related hospitalizations between people vaccinated toward the beginning of the country’s campaign (January and February) and those vaccinated toward the later stages (March and April). The study included more than 1.3 million records. As noted, the risk of infection was significantly higher for people the earlier they were vaccinated, with an additional trend for high risk of hospitalization. The results, the researchers said, are consistent with other studies on the subject that show a decline in antibody levels and immune system compounds after four to six months. The study was done as the Delta variantwas burning across the country and many believed that the variant may be the cause of increased infection in Israel. Mizrahi said the study shows that the variant was likely less of a factor than assumed – though this is still not confirmed. Will the third dose last longer? Mizrahi said that it is difficult to tell at this stage. Very preliminary data has started to be collected in various studies that shows antibodies are waning after the third shot, too. However, he said that the level of antibodies is not the only factor when it comes to immunity. Officials will need to watch and see if infections start going up and then set vaccination policy accordingly, Mizrahi said. “I don’t think it will take us that long to know,” he concluded. |
Can an iCrew pop-up "Your vaccination status will expire next month" be far behind? (tongue in cheek, of course, because HIPPA)
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If necessary, there will be adjusted vaccines to improve duration and address variants.
Worst case might be an annual booster, like the flu shot but I tend to think that once the variant production slows down that boosters won't be required as often. Also it depends on whether the goal is to avoid death, or avoid infection? At some point we'll probably be good as long as people aren't afraid of dying... good chance that immunity of any sort will provide fairly long protection against severe covid. Just like the flu shot... if you're at risk, better get the booster. If not, it's a personal decision based on the nuisance factor. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3323966)
If necessary, there will be adjusted vaccines to improve duration and address variants.
Worst case might be an annual booster, like the flu shot but I tend to think that once the variant production slows down that boosters won't be required as often. Also it depends on whether the goal is to avoid death, or avoid infection? At some point we'll probably be good as long as people aren't afraid of dying... good chance that immunity of any sort will provide fairly long protection against severe covid. Just like the flu shot... if you're at risk, better get the booster. If not, it's a personal decision based on the nuisance factor. How does one adjust duration without adjuvants that will likely increase - at least to some extent - the side effects and/or risk of the vaccine itself? But even then, this public health problem appears to have been so badly managed by Fauci and company that the percentage of people who are hardcore antivaxxers has increased, despite the demonstrated ability of the existing vaccines to limit severe clinical disease. You never get a second chance to make a first impression and the public opinion of the Public Health/Preventive Medicine community has taken some big hits. It seems doubtful a second vaccine rollout would go any better than the first one, even with an as yet only hypothetical better vaccine. Just my opinion… |
The vaccine is pretty dead, the updates are in trials right now, but they are 2-3 shots per year, and no one is going to do that. I think right now the focus should be on therapeutics, treating people when they first get symptoms, rather than waiting till they can't breathe anymore.
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Originally Posted by Excargodog
(Post 3323977)
Why would the variant risk die down? This is a worldwide pandemic, and even if we were to vaccinate 100% of our citizens, there are billions of other people out there that have not yet gotten their first jab, far less all the white-tailed deer, ferrets, mink, etc. Now that it has jumped out of bats, it’s become pretty widely disseminated.
How does one adjust duration without adjuvants that will likely increase - at least to some extent - the side effects and/or risk of the vaccine itself? But even then, this public health problem appears to have been so badly managed by Fauci and company that the percentage of people who are hardcore antivaxxers has increased, despite the demonstrated ability of the existing vaccines to limit severe clinical disease. You never get a second chance to make a first impression and the public opinion of the Public Health/Preventive Medicine community has taken some big hits. It seems doubtful a second vaccine rollout would go any better than the first one, even with an as yet only hypothetical better vaccine. Just my opinion… https://i.postimg.cc/zGrh3N9D/Screen...9-49-47-AM.png |
Originally Posted by Excargodog
(Post 3323977)
Why would the variant risk die down? This is a worldwide pandemic, and even if we were to vaccinate 100% of our citizens, there are billions of other people out there that have not yet gotten their first jab,
Also cross-reactivity should significantly dampen mutations... some mutations which might have a got a lot of traction in the original "novel" scenario will now wind up as nothing-burgers. Delta evolved before vaccines, and got traction before there was very much vaccine or natural immunity.
Originally Posted by Excargodog
(Post 3323977)
far less all the white-tailed deer, ferrets, mink, etc. Now that it has jumped out of bats, it’s become pretty widely disseminated.
Originally Posted by Excargodog
(Post 3323977)
How does one adjust duration without adjuvants that will likely increase - at least to some extent - the side effects and/or risk of the vaccine itself?
Originally Posted by Excargodog
(Post 3323977)
But even then, this public health problem appears to have been so badly managed by Fauci and company that the percentage of people who are hardcore antivaxxers has increased, despite the demonstrated ability of the existing vaccines to limit severe clinical disease. You never get a second chance to make a first impression and the public opinion of the Public Health/Preventive Medicine community has taken some big hits. It seems doubtful a second vaccine rollout would go any better than the first one, even with an as yet only hypothetical better vaccine.
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Originally Posted by Nantonaku
(Post 3324010)
Agreed, the shots are not stopping the spread. They might prevent death for the time being. But if the shots aren't preventing spread why would the variants go away?
https://i.postimg.cc/zGrh3N9D/Screen...9-49-47-AM.png 1. The vaccines do reduce the spread. 2. Vaccines and natural immunity reduce severity: More severe covid will provide exponentially more mutation opportunities than less severe disease. 3. Cross-reactive immunity from existing natural or vaccine-induced immunity will mitigate many potential mutations. People who have some existing immunity (which is getting to be most of us) provide less mutation opportunity. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3324014)
As more people acquire immunity (natural and/or vaccine induced), the reproductive opportunities, and thus mutation opportunities, for covid decline dramatically. There's actually a dramatic difference even between mild symptomatic and more severe symptoms with regards to the mutation opportunity... in fact you'd need logarithms to express it.
From the head of Covid variant research at the NIH. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EF_pLZ_y5A |
Originally Posted by Mesabah
(Post 3324030)
Yes, but variants don't start emerging from a person until several months into infection, these are very rare infections only in certain types of people.
From the head of Covid variant research at the NIH. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EF_pLZ_y5A https://i.ibb.co/hx5vz9f/7-B2-C476-A...A6-C9-D4-F.jpg How many with solid organ transplants? On chemo or radiotherapy? On high dose corticosteroids for other reasons? There will be AMPLE opportunities for mutation. |
Originally Posted by Excargodog
(Post 3324052)
How many people do we have living with HIV in this country alone? And in some poorly immunized African countries they have over 20% of the population living with HIV.
https://i.ibb.co/hx5vz9f/7-B2-C476-A...A6-C9-D4-F.jpg How many with solid organ transplants? On chemo or radiotherapy? On high dose corticosteroids for other reasons? There will be AMPLE opportunities for mutation. |
Originally Posted by Mesabah
(Post 3324030)
Yes, but variants don't start emerging from a person until several months into infection, these are very rare infections only in certain types of people.
From the head of Covid variant research at the NIH. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EF_pLZ_y5A |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3324077)
Yeah, that's what I was trying to say, in generalities. Not sure that I buy that there's absolutely zero opportunity for variants out of "typical" covid infections but severity clearly matters a lot.
The coronavirus has proofreading to prevent replication diversity, this is a property unique to coronaviruses, and some others. There is no reason a normal person will create variants. |
Originally Posted by Mesabah
(Post 3324083)
Yes, but it's important to realize the unvaccinated AND vaccinated play no role in variant creation. The vaccine however, does influence which variant is spreading through a population.
The coronavirus has proofreading to prevent replication diversity, this is a property unique to coronaviruses, and some others. There is no reason a normal person will create variants. It seems that existing immunity may reduce instances of drawn-out severe covid which are conducive to mutations. Also it is potentially useful that we could identify those with lingering acute covid and maximize their treatment, and in some cases quarantine them to prevent mutation escape. People in this category are very rare. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3324085)
Yes, it's very nice that it proofreads (aka resists mutation).
It seems that existing immunity may reduce instances of drawn-out severe covid which are conducive to mutations. Also it is potentially useful that we could identify those with lingering acute covid and maximize their treatment, and in some cases quarantine them to prevent mutation escape. People in this category are very rare. |
Originally Posted by Mesabah
(Post 3324099)
I cringe when I hear people on CNN claiming the unvaccinated are making variants, and this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. That is a complete lie. It's a pandemic of the unhealthy.
Policy makers and opinion shapers already completely disregard naturally acquired immunity and insist EVERYBODY take a needle, even those with miniscule risk profiles (like children). So it’s not a stretch to believe that they WILL expand the mandate to include boosters, and worse yet, they’ll probably insist on boosters even for people who had adverse reactions the first time around. They are just that detached from reality. |
Originally Posted by Mesabah
(Post 3324099)
I cringe when I hear people on CNN claiming the unvaccinated are making variants, and this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. That is a complete lie. It's a pandemic of the unhealthy.
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Originally Posted by Mesabah
(Post 3324063)
Monoclonal antibodies block escape variants in these patients, for this reason we haven't seen much viral diversity in the US.
As of today, Mozambique has administered 23 single immunizations per 100 population. Since some of that was J&J, they are at about 12% immunized. Of course since they started in June, the earliest people receiving an immunization should be getting in line for boosters next month. |
I hope some armchair epidemiologist/pilot can debunk what’s going on in Germany detailed here:
germany's vakzine faildespite over 67% fully vaxxed covid looks worse than 2020https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/germanys-vakzine-fail |
Debunk?? The death shot don’t work. Unless you are old, or have health issues, more likely to be harmed by shot than covid. FACT. Dumb ass rickndumd777 will ban me again I’m sure.
jab doesn’t stop infection jabbed spread covid equally with unjabbed reduce seriousness of infection???? How you going to prove that? stop drinking the cool aid. Stand up. Stand up for yourself. Stand up for your kids. Stand up for your country. Just say no. |
Originally Posted by Abouttime2fish
(Post 3325000)
Debunk?? The death shot don’t work. Unless you are old, or have health issues, more likely to be harmed by shot than covid. FACT. Dumb ass rickndumd777 will ban me again I’m sure.
jab doesn’t stop infection jabbed spread covid equally with unjabbed reduce seriousness of infection???? How you going to prove that? stop drinking the cool aid. Stand up. Stand up for yourself. Stand up for your kids. Stand up for your country. Just say no. |
Originally Posted by YXnot
(Post 3325004)
…..Amen, hold the line, I got slapped for saying the shots don’t work as advertised. I guess opinions aren’t allowed.
Otherwise you get banned for “misinformation” or “moderator harassment” Opposing opinions are not taken lightly here |
1 Attachment(s)
Thank you APC for advertising this in this thread!!
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This one too!!
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Once again, lots of vaccines require multiple shots. You're getting worked up over nothing. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...bd59a4df4c.jpg
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Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
(Post 3325077)
Once again, lots of vaccines require multiple shots. You're getting worked up over nothing. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...bd59a4df4c.jpg
I got Smallpox twice All the others you listed plus anthrax, typhoid, and some other junk I have no idea (supposedly to counter blood agents and certain nerve type agents - chem weapon ****). So I see your vaxxes and will raise you all mine :) Guess I should be labeled "SUPER VAXXED" and get an immediate waiver from this BS coof jab and any other future mandated jabs - right? |
Originally Posted by Drum
(Post 3325087)
None of those you listed above are required, other than the coof jab, to keep ones job though amiright?
I got Smallpox twice All the others you listed plus anthrax, typhoid, and some other junk I have no idea (supposedly to counter blood agents and certain nerve type agents - chem weapon ****). So I see your vaxxes and will raise you all mine :) Guess I should be labeled "SUPER VAXXED" and get an immediate waiver from this BS coof jab and any other future mandated jabs - right? Honestly don't care what you do or how it affects your employment status. |
Originally Posted by Abouttime2fish
(Post 3325000)
Debunk?? The death shot don’t work. Unless you are old, or have health issues, more likely to be harmed by shot than covid. FACT. Dumb ass rickndumd777 will ban me again I’m sure.
jab doesn’t stop infection jabbed spread covid equally with unjabbed reduce seriousness of infection???? How you going to prove that? stop drinking the cool aid. Stand up. Stand up for yourself. Stand up for your kids. Stand up for your country. Just say no.
Originally Posted by YXnot
(Post 3325004)
…..Amen, hold the line, I got slapped for saying the shots don’t work as advertised. I guess opinions aren’t allowed.
Originally Posted by RI830
(Post 3325071)
Only opinions that matter are that agree with said MOD.
Otherwise you get banned for “misinformation” or “moderator harassment” Opposing opinions are not taken lightly here Last one was 30 days, for "misinformation". Yeah, Lt Col (DR) Long was thought to be made up by me. When I pointed out she was indeed real, with multiple sources to include her LinkedIn and live televised testimony in front of Sen Ron Johnson's COVID-19 panel. I don't care. I'll keep posting. This coof charade and its freedom sapping policies and draconian state and extra-government actions has gone on long enough. Fortunately I live in a free state. 15 days of the month I revel in my freedom. Too bad I have to overnight in craphole blue cities/states that practice medical apartheid. Lucky for me Uber Eats still delivers to us pure bloods Have a great Thanksgiving everyone. Enjoy time with friends families and co-workers if you happen to be flying over the holiday. See you all in a week or two - Inshallah |
Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
(Post 3325089)
Honestly don't care what you do or how it affects your employment status.
You're totally ignoring the issue at hand dude. IDGAS about Hep A or any of the other listed (boosted or not) shots because not getting a HEP A, or any of the other listed shots doesn't mean I will lose my job. This coof jab does. Savvy? |
The post was about how the vaccine can't be legit because it requires several shots. I was simply replying that several vaccines required for kids to attend public school requires several primes and/or boosters.
That has less than nothing to do with any kind of employment mandate. |
Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
(Post 3325096)
The post was about how the vaccine can't be legit because it requires several shots. I was simply replying that several vaccines required for kids to attend public school requires several primes and/or boosters.
That has less than nothing to do with any kind of employment mandate. |
Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
(Post 3325077)
Once again, lots of vaccines require multiple shots. You're getting worked up over nothing.
There is literally no end in sight to a 3-6 month boosting protocol for a vaccine that isn't changing and a virus that is. Those other vaccines were released after a years, if not decades, of testing over a wide range of recipients. With significant liability for the manufactures if they went south. Most of all, those vaccines were not, for the most part, effectively mandatory as a condition of employment for the huge swath of the general adult population. Nor were they the first release of a new type of "vaccine" mechanism. (mRNA). (They're probably a good idea for at risk..the old, the fat, the diabetic...Americans, basically.) No one at the start of this thing every hinted at this vaccine every 3-6 months for the indefinite future. Doesn't it bother you that there is literally no research available for the long term effects of that? |
Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
(Post 3325096)
The post was about how the vaccine can't be legit because it requires several shots. I was simply replying that several vaccines required for kids to attend public school requires several primes and/or boosters.
That has less than nothing to do with any kind of employment mandate. This has everything to do with mandates. The only reason we are even discussing it is due to the mandates. How many shots do we have to take to keep our jobs? How many shots will you take? Is 3 the magic number? 4? 1 per month? My point is, "they" have no clue how many boosters we will need, or if the currently available vaccines are even going work at all! Which is exactly the reason it is absolute insanity that there is any sort of government mandates. Im still trying to figure out why the shots are even called vaccines if they only reduce symptoms (allegedly). |
One wonders if even Austria
…which is 75% vaccinated, has the ability to force the other 25%into getting vaccinated:
https://i.ibb.co/HKXwtJr/E612-F978-D...1-DDFA36-D.jpg And even if they do, will it do any good in interrupting the epidemic? Because many of those already vaccinated - and the most vulnerable ones at that who were given priority for early shots - are already due or overdue for boosters. |
Originally Posted by Mesabah
(Post 3325101)
I think the issue is that the manufacturer never claimed the vaccines last more than 6 months, and/or prevented transmission. The gov, with the media, claimed that the manufacturers were actually wrong, and the vaccine would last many years. Of course, certain members of this forum take what the media/gov says as gospel.
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Originally Posted by Mesabah
(Post 3324099)
I cringe when I hear people on CNN claiming the unvaccinated are making variants, and this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. That is a complete lie. It's a pandemic of the unhealthy.
Hospitalization, especially severe cases, and most deaths with Covid, occur among the unvaccinated. One could opine that in their hospitalized state, they are unhealthy. |
Originally Posted by Nvrgofullretard
(Post 3325240)
source? Not saying that the gov didn’t claim the vaccine would last “many years”, I just can’t find any official language on that. If you can’t either, please refrain from passing on propaganda
https://www.npr.org/2021/09/13/10366...e-booster-shot |
Originally Posted by DeltaboundRedux
(Post 3325105)
Well, yeah, of course. Apples and oranges, false equivalency. You do see that, right?
There is literally no end in sight to a 3-6 month boosting protocol for a vaccine that isn't changing and a virus that is. Also it appears possible or likely that significant mutations only occur in very rare patients who have extended covid due to immune issues... that's good because it means that the source is easy to identify and rare enough to largely control. Worst case it will settle out to annual boosters, possibly modified for any variants (just like the flu).
Originally Posted by DeltaboundRedux
(Post 3325105)
No one at the start of this thing every hinted at this vaccine every 3-6 months for the indefinite future. Doesn't it bother you that there is literally no research available for the long term effects of that?
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Originally Posted by DeltaboundRedux
(Post 3325105)
Well, yeah, of course. Apples and oranges, false equivalency. You do see that, right?
There is literally no end in sight to a 3-6 month boosting protocol for a vaccine that isn't changing and a virus that is. Those other vaccines were released after a years, if not decades, of testing over a wide range of recipients. With significant liability for the manufactures if they went south. Most of all, those vaccines were not, for the most part, effectively mandatory as a condition of employment for the huge swath of the general adult population. Nor were they the first release of a new type of "vaccine" mechanism. (mRNA). (They're probably a good idea for at risk..the old, the fat, the diabetic...Americans, basically.) No one at the start of this thing every hinted at this vaccine every 3-6 months for the indefinite future. Doesn't it bother you that there is literally no research available for the long term effects of that? |
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