Where and when did I ever say I supported corruption? The corruption I know about, the individual went to prison. Do I agree with everything ALPA has done? No...when I had questions, I talked to the reps and or chairmen, got answers that I was ok with.

So you're saying you know about corruption and you have not done anything about it? If you have evidence about fraud and corruption take it to the authorities.

Bob, I get that it didn't go the way you were hoping for with DPA..you always have the ability to resign your membership.

When you keep reaching the wrong conclusion check your premises and LM-3 reporting requirements while your at it. ALPA and all unions have far greater financial reporting requirements than any corporation.

I find that people who assert such demonstrably wrong claims usually just don't like unions.

yeah...those kennedys were real union haters....all those hearings and allegations of corruption in the teamsters.

anyone who suggests a cba is anything less than transparent....is obviously a union hater.

And here I thought we were talking about ALPA and this century. You're like the tourists who think Al Capone is still running around Chicago.

BTW, ever heard about the global financial crisis and the corporate corruption that caused it? And you think the largest and most successful pilot union in the world is a problem.

Union hater? Of course not.

good thing that transparent cba had its ducks in a row and had installed contractual firewalls against those evil corporatists when that economic meltdown occurred....this century.

oh wait, my mistake....that was those other pilot unions.

Please cite examples of contractual firewalls that non-ALPA unions used to withstand 9/11 and Chapter 11 challenges. We're all ears.

No kidding. I'm all ears, too.

prior to delta filing the alpa national chair personally informed me that up until very recently no one had ever heard of airline bankruptcies and pension failures.

to suppose such a ridiculous assertion....one would have to be incompetent....a liar....or a crook. Or depending on what the situation requires...maybe all three.

But I wouldn't put transparent in the same universe with such leadership.

the major independent pilot groups in the industry did a more competent job at shielding their members from the economic calamity of the last decade.

Really? Fedex still has a pension, suffered very little contractual degradation and they are and were ALPA. The IPA fared similarly well too. Why? Cargo pays.

NWA (ALPA) pilots have a frozen A plan just like the APA. Why? Those airlines had more cash in BK.

CAL (ALPA) pilots have a frozen A plan because they didn't have a post 9/11 BK.

So the problem is not ALPA, it is the financial health of the individual corporations.

So I will ask again, please cite examples of contractual firewalls that non-ALPA unions used to withstand 9/11 and Chapter 11 challenges. We're all ears.

APA? yeah they have a frozen A plan....but you forgot about the other part. half a story, is no story.

CAL? well, they had their bankruptcy pre 9/11. twice if my memory serves. I guess alpa national missed those press releases.

fedex? are you seriously claiming alpa credit for their retirement footprint?

Of course even as the history of EAL/WAL/PAA was being absorbed, dalpa operatives were apparently as equally oblivious as national.

the industry record of airline bankruptcies is inarguable, and the record of afl-cio labor group employers who sought reorganization is even more substantial.

yet since the 1973 pbgc legislation, there was virtually no effort on the part alpa to mitigate the economic damage from what became the accepted if not preferred mechanism by corporate operatives to shed maturing, and ever more expensive employee pension obligations. bankruptcy court.

do you have any idea what the first piece of paper delta management put on the judges desk, the morning after the day they filed the reorganization case?

and even though there are still alpa pilot groups with DB plans, can you cite a single effort, let alone an accomplishment, that would help insulate them, from the same fate as those who have already been through reorganization?