That would be fine with me! However the PA/NJ guys who aggressively lobby for EWR pairings might not like the results of that either. While they may get less 5am JFK/LGA stuff, they'd end up with less EWR trips as well.

While I loathe the idea of "virtual bases" perhaps turning EWR into one can be a win win in NYC at least, I don't know I'd have to think about it. But expecting reserves (or even some line holders in the post 117 world of WTH line construction) to cover all 3 is just asinine, no matter where they live.

 

LIRR right in Kew will take you to Penn station. Then go to the other Penn station, then the Airtrain (not that one, the other one).

 

Not for a 5am show as mentioned in his post. It might be a 30 min drive. 8 am or 4 pm...yup....could be 3 hours. My comparison still stands.

 

Why would cutting back on 5am reports cause a reduction in EWR trips? Apples and oranges.

 

Early shows (and late releases) are not only common in EWR but make up much of the rationale for narrow body trips out of there anyway. Not all, but a god percentage. What would happen if you did that would be a reduction in pairings from that airport by pilots in that base. Either that or they'd just move up departure time to 5:01

 

5am might not bear the full brunt of NYC traffic, but for most pilots who live/pad responsibly in Queens (or wherever is a quick shot to JFK/LGA where a majority of trips are in) still often have to get up at 2am or so to be sure they make that 5am EWR report.

They can base the entire airline out of EWR if they want to. But its asinine to include it in a "co-base" of JFK and LGA while including that transportation in "rest". Travel time for the large majority of pilots based there is dramatically longer (rush hour or not) than the other two that comprise the majority of their base's flying. EWR is simply indefensible other than pointing out that they do it because they can because we let and because a small number of pilots based there like it. Obviously. So let's make every airport within 3 hours of an existing base a co-base. At least as long as someone benefits. Right?

Perhaps we can treat it like a VB, which would be fair. Or if we keep it in NYC at least provide free transportation to and from LGA/JFK (and include it in duty time).

 

Don't disagree with most of your points but the basis of my comment was simply based on MikeF16 saying a 5 am sign-in at EWR was the equivalent of him having to drive to Chattanooga. I simply pointed out that if you get in your car (or Uber...or taxi), you can be at EWR in 30 minutes or less at that time of the AM. No question that NYC is an a$$-pain and that is why it is junior and why a vast majority of new hires do a touch and go thru the domicile. And I agree, EWR lends itself to being a virtual base with its fluctuating schedule and equipment.

Just to add to the discussion, what about LAX based pilots? I believe they have to cover LAX, SNA and ONT and those 3 are much farther apart than JFK, LGA and EWR and that left coast traffic can put the NY-NJ area to shame.

 

I'm not a fan of that "co base" either, at least to any extent anyone has to cover the outlier airports against their will. Both are holdovers of long ago that still persist because neither effects anywhere near a majority of pilots, and benefit small but extremely vocal minorities. LA is much smaller as well, with fewer commuters than NYC usually, although percentage wise the gap is probably narrowing.

Most pilots in both those bases aren't effected either (unless they like it and want to be). But I'm concerned about the junior pilots (in both seats) who've made responsible accommodation arrangements near the main airport that can get royally burned by getting trips out of the unrealistic "co-terminals" without company provided transportation all while "at rest".

 

EWR was working well when only 15% of trips originated there, now its 55% for April 717nyc. only 11 commutable trips in the bid package is total BS too! Worst pattern construction I have seen my entire career at Delta. I also heard A320 in NYC did not do much better other then little to no EWR! This is what happens when you have no contract language to protect the masses, relying on FAR117 has been a disaster!